Comp. License Questions

jakepressley · **Posted:** Sat Jul 17, 2010 5:30 pm

I should probably smartin' up, as my father would say... as I've had to scale back to only the local clubs. I've heard many stories about how the the next level "racing" can swallow you up.

With that disclaimer amply noted:

I noticed in some of "the other" club racing programs that there is a difference between a comp and TT License. Are you only able to become "certified" based on the limitations of your car?

example.

My car passes THSCC tech for the TT series, would I/could I "if i were to pass" be signed off for W2W events or strictly their TT series?

I wonder how their TT tech compares to THSCC? I've seen the tech forms but they don't indicate what modifications are strictly for TT vs W2W.

Jason Tower · **Joined:** Wed Jun 11, 2008 3:31 pm **Posts:** 1173

are you talking about the driver being permitted to run TT or w2w, or the car? they're separate, with nasa you can't attend w2w comp school to get your license without a proper race car. sometimes people will borrow or rent a car if they don't have a race-ready car of their own. time trials are different, i think you just need to pass a check ride. and i'm pretty sure nasa TT car requirements are less strict than w2w.

bmwcca OTOH allows street cars to participate in their comp school, that's what i did using my nsx last year, then i bought the race car and did nasa comp school in feb. but you can't race bmwcca without a proper car.

Bernie Baake · **Posted:** Sat Jul 17, 2010 6:51 pm

I don't think NASA requires a roll bar for TT unless it's a convertable. I believe that they place the same requirements as HPDE on TT cars. The comp license allows you to do both TT and W2W. If you run TT without a roll bar your tempting fate IMHO. And a full cage would be more advisable than a bar.

Kevin Harvey · **Posted:** Sat Jul 17, 2010 10:05 pm

To summarize for a hardtop car for the stuff I have done/seen (SA2005 brainbucket applies to all):

THSCC
- HPDE -- mechanically sound car with minimum OEM safety items
- Time Trial -- mechanically sound car with minimum 4pt roll bar, 5 or 6pt harness, and fire extinguisher (HANS for SPO class)

NASA
- HPDE -- mechanically sound car with minimum OEM safety items
- Time Trial -- mechanically sound car with minimum OEM safety items
- Wheel to Wheel -- mechanically sound car with roll cage, 5-6pt harness, race seat, fire extinguisher, battery off switch, firesuit, gloves, shoes, no airbags, etc. (not sure about the HANS requirement - Jason or Evan can chime in)
- TT License allows you to run TT; Comp License allows you to run either

Chump
- Wheel to Wheel -- mechanically sound car with roll cage, fire extinguisher, 5-6pt harness, race seat, battery off switch, firesuit, gloves, shoes, no airbags, etc.
- Comp License allows you to run (four hour class with a diploma on a sheet of toilet paper - seriously)

jakepressley · **Posted:** Sun Jul 18, 2010 7:25 am

Thanks all

Its not time for me to enter this realm just yet. I feel as though I need at least a few more years and to hit a few more tracks before I start down this road.

I would probably rent or borrow an IP M3 from one of my friends as the mustang makes a great TT car but is simply too stock for W2W.... For me I wonder if it would make more sense to buy a prepped spec E30 or Miata rather than re-invent the wheel with this solid axle pig.

Perhaps a 1-2 year goal of instructing is a more obtainable step?

I'll hang with you w2w guys eventually... 23 years till my pension starts

counting the minutes

steve remchak · **Posted:** Sun Jul 18, 2010 9:31 am

Jake, you could start by haunting the LeMons / Chump forums in an effort to rent a seat for one of their events.

you would need your own safety gear (helmet, suit, shoes, gloves, socks, H&N protection) but that would give you a jump on those things once you have a car and make the jump to NASA / SCCA etc..

while it isn't "real racing" per se, it is W2W and a ton of fun. i've seen seats go from $250 to $1000 for a weekend. the average with an established team is in the neighborhood of about $650 i think. but i believe that can include all fees and race expenditures. obviously room and board for the weekend would be extra.

i don't think you can go wrong with a Spec E30. plus the Spec 3 / Spec E36 class seems to be growing slowly also.

and of course there are a ton of Fox bodies in NASA.

Vincent Keene · **Posted:** Sun Jul 18, 2010 10:24 am

steve remchak wrote:

while it isn't "real racing" per se, it is W2W and a ton of fun.

I think driving on a track with 100+ other cars trying to get to the finish line before you qualifies as 'real racing'.

Lemons is a more an entry level racing series, but the guy ahead of you ain't gonna slow down and point you by, so that is real racing IMO.

steve remchak · **Posted:** Sun Jul 18, 2010 12:40 pm

Vincent Keene wrote:

steve remchak wrote:

while it isn't "real racing" per se, it is W2W and a ton of fun.

I think driving on a track with 100+ other cars trying to get to the finish line before you qualifies as 'real racing'.

Lemons is a more an entry level racing series, but the guy ahead of you ain't gonna slow down and point you by, so that is real racing IMO.

now you know i only said that before someone among the "real racing camp" chimed in VK. :twisted:

Kevin Harvey · **Posted:** Sun Jul 18, 2010 1:25 pm

Jake,

With a few more bars on your rollbar to make it a cage, you aren't far from Camaro-Mustang-Challenge with NASA.

-Kevin

jakepressley · **Posted:** Sun Jul 18, 2010 4:11 pm

Thanks Guys....

My mustang is about stock, so for me it's probably not worth pumping thousands of dollars into it. After much though I believe that I'll keep my mustang as a TT car and probably try to volunteer to help a team or spectate for a chump/lemons event. Get an idea of what this level requires, skill/time/money. I've already got all of the PPE, HANS, Suit, Golves, Shoes, which was purchased after a "moment" at VIR's turn 10.

I've got an 89 325i that I've been messing with for a while now. I'm really impressed how they are put together. The E30 seems to have great cross over between clubs.

I wonder if I need two race cars? Wonder how THAT would look

:wink:

Vincent Keene · **Posted:** Sun Jul 18, 2010 4:29 pm

jakepressley wrote:

I've already got all of the PPE, HANS, Suit, Golves, Shoes, which was purchased after a "moment" at VIR's turn 10.

Many of us have had a "moment" in T10, some with luckier results than others. Most were scared enough to make sure they never had a repeat performance...myself being one of them. After that I thought I knew where the line I couldn't cross in that turn was...then I drove it at in a race which happened to take place at 11:00 PM. If you think that turn can make you pucker, try it at night!

Bernie Baake · **Posted:** Sun Jul 18, 2010 5:45 pm

Lemons and Chump car venues are real racing, make no mistake. And with the increased schedule of both, it certainly affords an entry level W2W opportunity for the novice racer. And it's a lot of fun.... That being said a comp school with NASA would also help the novice racer wether or not you run with them. The exercises they put you through will certainly help you with what ever venue you choose to run. Chuck Hawks does some of the exercises with Stacy's Asphalt ventures classes and you don't need to have a race preped car with AV. So you can do some prep work prior to getting a race car. Then find a Lemons or Chumpcar team and get your feet wet..good luck...

Jason Tower · **Joined:** Wed Jun 11, 2008 3:31 pm **Posts:** 1173

Bernie Baake wrote:

Lemons and Chump car venues are real racing, make no mistake. And with the increased schedule of both, it certainly affords an entry level W2W opportunity for the novice racer. And it's a lot of fun.... That being said a comp school with NASA would also help the novice racer wether or not you run with them. The exercises they put you through will certainly help you with what ever venue you choose to run. Chuck Hawks does some of the exercises with Stacy's Asphalt ventures classes and you don't need to have a race preped car with AV. So you can do some prep work prior to getting a race car. Then find a Lemons or Chumpcar team and get your feet wet..good luck...

nasa comp school can be hit or miss, the one i did in feb with nasa-se was a joke. i hear nasa-ma does a better job but it's still a one day affair. bmwcca comp school is more expensive but it's two days long and quite thorough. the hawks/AV sessions can be good too, not quite racing but more advanced than a typical hpde. still, it's hard to beat lemons/chump for getting a true taste of w2w racing.

jakepressley · **Posted:** Sun Jul 18, 2010 7:11 pm

I attended Chuck's School last spring at VIR and am signed up again for NCCAR..

Very worth the time and money invested.

Bernie Baake · **Posted:** Sun Jul 18, 2010 7:42 pm

Jake, if you should decide to take a NASA comp school take the NASA mid atlantic. They run a good school, taking one from SE doesn't buy you a thing. Comp school is to prepare you for racing, and it's to your benifit to take a real school not a farce. The SCCA school I took last year was a joke and I felt that I didn't get much from it so I took the NASA MA comp school. It came highly recommended by Jim Pastorius and Kent Keller....
And they were spot on.

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