What's the Best Autocross Rain Tire?

Gwen Habenicht · **Posted:** Mon Nov 30, 2009 10:47 am

Here’s a conversation starter to keep you thinking, and away from Cyber shopping on this Monday after Thanksgiving. To be prepared for running in the rain/wet, please list your opinions on what is the best rain tire for autocross and why.
Thanks in advance.

Gwen

Michael Westerfield · **Posted:** Mon Nov 30, 2009 10:51 am

Street tire or R-comp?

Michael Czeiszperger · **Joined:** Thu Apr 09, 2009 9:35 am **Posts:** 861

Wow, that's pretty serious to carry two sets of extra wheels to each event...

JamesFeinberg · **Posted:** Mon Nov 30, 2009 11:50 am

Street = Toyo R1R
R-Compound = Hoosier Radial Wet

Some people think the Kumho W710 might be better than the Hoosiers but the availability is sketchy at best. The Hoosiers also don't age very well once they have been used.

Easy button? Get some Toyo R1R's and use them as your street tires. If it is raining, don't change tires at events. They also work pretty good in the cold and if it is less than ~45 degrees but dry, I'd probably just run them as well.

Jim

Gwen Habenicht · **Posted:** Mon Nov 30, 2009 12:32 pm

Michael Czeiszperger wrote:

Wow, that's pretty serious to carry two sets of extra wheels to each event...

Actually, I'm considering doing some Tour events in 2010, and probably Nationals. If you're going to drive half way across America a couple of extra sets of tires is probably a given.

Keith Vail · **Posted:** Mon Nov 30, 2009 12:34 pm

I will mirror Jim's sentiments on the matter. I plan on having a set of R1R's on the S2000 for big events this year in case of rain.

Gwen Habenicht · **Posted:** Mon Nov 30, 2009 12:37 pm

JamesFeinberg wrote:

Street = Toyo R1R
R-Compound = Hoosier Radial Wet

Some people think the Kumho W710 might be better than the Hoosiers but the availability is sketchy at best. The Hoosiers also don't age very well once they have been used.

Easy button? Get some Toyo R1R's and use them as your street tires. If it is raining, don't change tires at events. They also work pretty good in the cold and if it is less than ~45 degrees but dry, I'd probably just run them as well.

Jim

Thanks, Bo. :wink:

Which did you take to Lincoln? And, by the way, how many sets of tires did you tell me you took with you this year? Oh, and I like the R1R idea, especially when I go to NCR on my own. I hate changing tires!

DickRasmussen · **Posted:** Mon Nov 30, 2009 1:55 pm

FYI,

Hoosier (Bruce Foss) emphasized that with rain tires it is important to keep the tread blocks "sharp". I.E. don't round the edges of all the tread grooves by using them for practice, etc. This was for formula car, etc. rain tires but it probably applies to others as well.

Consider the expense in rain tires to be insurance. Hopefully you will never collect on the policy and the tires will "age out".

Dick

Aaron Buckley · **Posted:** Mon Nov 30, 2009 2:01 pm

Unless there is a good amount of puddling, or it's a brutally cold rain, A6's will almost always be as good or better than any rain tire.

That said, if I were running 15" tires and could get my hands on dirt stockers, I would use those over the radial rains. - AB

JamesFeinberg · **Posted:** Mon Nov 30, 2009 2:21 pm

Gwen Baake wrote:

Thanks, Bo. :wink:

Which did you take to Lincoln? And, by the way, how many sets of tires did you tell me you took with you this year? Oh, and I like the R1R idea, especially when I go to NCR on my own. I hate changing tires!

David and I brought Hoosier Wets. The one downside to using Toyos at a national event is that you will lose out on possible contingency tires from Hoosier if you have anything other than Hoosiers on the car during any competition runs.

To make it slightly more complicated, Toyos don't handle heat very well so if you use them when it is hot outside, you probably won't be able to keep up with the heat buildup even using a sprayer. Not really a big deal for a local event, however. And if it is raining, it isn't an issue at all.

Unless you are adept at jumping into an unfamiliar car and going fast immediately, I don't know if I'd recommend using different tires at different events (excluding rainy runs). It might throw off your timing enough that you need extra runs to get your feel back for the r-comps. The Tours do offer a Friday practice day which I highly recommend taking advantage of so that might be enough either way.

How many tires did we take to Lincoln? This many:

There were 14 on the trailer and 4 more in the Type R. We also had an additional 4 waiting on us at the hotel. Our situation was a little funky in that we had tires for 2 different cars and we both ran the Pro Finale and the regular Championships. I also rented out the MR2 for the Championships so we technically had 4 drivers over 2 events. Oh yea, we also took a bunch of runs on the practice course. Our saving grace was that we won all those tires during the course of the year so our only out of pocket expenses were the trip costs and tire mounting.

We also have plenty of tires left over to use well into next season. They can be used as handy makeshift furniture too. :lol:

Jim

JamesFeinberg · **Posted:** Mon Nov 30, 2009 2:53 pm

Aaron Buckley wrote:

Unless there is a good amount of puddling, or it's a brutally cold rain, A6's will almost always be as good or better than any rain tire.

That's generally true except that it can be very difficult to tell how many puddles are lurking out there. In DC earlier this year, I was able to beat the other guys in my class when it was raining and they were on the Wet Radials. I didn't bring any rain tires so I just ran my A6's. The lot at DC was sloped enough that even though it was raining while we were running, it drained very fast leaving no puddles on the course line.

In Toledo, it was a completely different story. It rained just prior to my group going out on course and even though it had completely stopped, there were enough puddles that the A6's were a total disaster. Watching from the sidelines, it looked like there wasn't enough water to make a difference but there were 2 spots on each course that made the A6's feel like you were driving on ice. I can tell you that A6's were definitively not the hot ticket. :lol:

Lincoln is obviously more similar to Toledo than DC so, in general, it probably isn't worth taking the chance on A6's (or V710's) if it is raining or has recently rained.

All in all, it's a crap shoot!

Jim

Michael Westerfield · **Posted:** Mon Nov 30, 2009 3:02 pm

JamesFeinberg wrote:

All in all, it's a crap shoot!

Jim

Translation: Save the money from rains for the beer and trips to the strip club at night.

That probably doesn't work as well for Gwen though.

Pete Guthrie · **Posted:** Mon Nov 30, 2009 3:03 pm

in the rain.. the bfg traction t/a's that were on my nissan.. were awesome.. they were Mud and Snow tires.. and were great. my subaru has a set of bridgestone rain tires of one sort or another.. and in OCS clay work great..very wet clay that is.. in dry, the bfg were very out of their element.
The tires just did not have the dry grip of a falken azein..however.. in deep rain.. they gripped great. the subaru has been driven mostly in dirt and mud..
but bridgestone makes good street/mud/rain type tires.

Aaron Buckley · **Posted:** Mon Nov 30, 2009 3:37 pm

I do agree with Jim that on a very flat surface that doesn't drain well, rains are good. While I hate losing a Tour due to rain, I would not be willing to buy specific rain tires for Tour events.

For Nationals (when I have a car that doesn't have 19" wheels), you can make a request for Hoosier to bring you out a set of rains in your size and hold them. If you think it will rain, then you buy them... They have done this for me '04-'06. After that, I had the dreaded 19" wheels

For ProSolos, rain tires are a waste, unless it's raining for the challenge. In the last 8 years of running ProSolos, I have never been to an event that had rain for every session. Many had 2 rain sessions, but the dry sessions were always considerably faster. - AB

JamesFeinberg · **Posted:** Mon Nov 30, 2009 4:04 pm

Aaron Buckley wrote:

For ProSolos, rain tires are a waste, unless it's raining for the challenge. In the last 8 years of running ProSolos, I have never been to an event that had rain for every session. Many had 2 rain sessions, but the dry sessions were always considerably faster. - AB

In general Aaron is dead on although he obviously missed the great monsoon that was the '08 Pro Finale. I didn't have rain tires so, instead, I screwed over my co-driver and, um, jumped ship into Karen Kraus' WRX.

Gwen, I really hope you can try to make it to a couple of Pros this year. I think you'll have a great time and it will make the trip to Lincoln more worthwhile if you can run both the Finale and the Championships. I would just pick up some R1R's as street tires and not worry about it much beyond that.

Jim

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