What's the Best Autocross Rain Tire?

Aaron Buckley · **Posted:** Mon Nov 30, 2009 4:22 pm

JamesFeinberg wrote:

In general Aaron is dead on although he obviously missed the great monsoon that was the '08 Pro Finale. I didn't have rain tires so, instead, I screwed over my co-driver and, um, jumped ship into Karen Kraus' WRX.

Jim

He's right. I missed the ProFinale and Nationals the last two years. '08 because I was getting married in November and had tapped out my 26 days of vacation for that

and '09, because my co-driver went to Australia for 2 weeks and had tapped out his vacation, leaving me the ability to go it alone. With as bad as I drove the C6 throughout the year, I wasn't going to waste my money

If I had to plan on anything Gwen, I would hit 2 ProSolos over any Tour event. Usually I will do at least one Tour event and then do all ProSolos. This year we will either do the Peru Tour or bag it all together and pay the extra fee to run Nationals (which is ton cheaper than the cost of an actual Tour).

Considering I'm getting a STI and they still don't make a good size of 19" rains for the C6, another year will certainly pass without them :wink:

- AB

Gwen Habenicht · **Posted:** Mon Nov 30, 2009 6:32 pm

Thanks for all the great info. I’ve looked up sizes and pricing on both R1r’s and Hoosier Wets. Needless to say, breathtaking $, even for my little car. Still, I think if I’m going to do this, I should be as well prepared as possible.

They don’t really make a size that’s exactly what I’m running, 215/40/16s, but I scuffed in some 225/15 Hankooks for Bernie’s car last spring and they didn’t rub, so I guess I’ll start trying to figure things out.

From talking with friends and from what I’ve read, I think I’ll really enjoy the Tour events. Since I’ve never been to Nationals, everyone says the Tour will give me a taste of what it’s like, as well as give me the opportunity to meet other H stockers. It sounds like that would be the plus of Tour, where the plus for Pros would be the Finale and having more opportunity to make runs on the same surface as Nationals. Am I reading that right? That said, isn’t there a day at Nationals where if you’ve signed up early enough you have the opportunity to test/tune on the surface?

Continue, please. Thanks.

Gwen

Gwen Habenicht · **Posted:** Mon Nov 30, 2009 6:37 pm

Besides, if I go to a Tour and get left in a pile of weasel dust, I’ll know for sure that I’m not “Nationals material”. A notion I’ve held for sometime. :cry:

Karl Shultz · **Posted:** Mon Nov 30, 2009 7:48 pm

Gwen Baake wrote:

From talking with friends and from what I’ve read, I think I’ll really enjoy the Tour events. Since I’ve never been to Nationals, everyone says the Tour will give me a taste of what it’s like, as well as give me the opportunity to meet other H stockers. It sounds like that would be the plus of Tour, where the plus for Pros would be the Finale and having more opportunity to make runs on the same surface as Nationals. Am I reading that right? That said, isn’t there a day at Nationals where if you’ve signed up early enough you have the opportunity to test/tune on the surface?

Continue, please. Thanks.

Gwen

At least this year, there was a practice course set up on the opposite side of the site from the main courses. The process by which you get a time slot on the practice course needs improvement, but wasn't all that bad, and I'm sure it will be more streamlined next year.

That said, I wouldn't describe the surface the test course was on as similar to the main course surface. They were made of the same pavement, but drove differently. We (Chris, Eric and I) made setup changes immediately after first runs for Eric and me, which is unusual. Normally my car requires very little screwing around.

Anyway, this was a pretty common observation, that the main courses drove differently than the practice course.

One last thing, Gwen - toss the whole notion of whether or not you, or anyone else, is "Nationals Material." Just go and have a good time. I've been slow, or found a different way to finish poorly, at every big event I've gone to in the last two years. It's still a riot, and a heck of a learning experience too.

JamesFeinberg · **Posted:** Mon Nov 30, 2009 8:55 pm

Gwennie, Karl is right. Forget the notion about "Nationals Material." They are just another event and you are as prepared as anybody else out there. Do you have an idea about which events you might attend?

They already released the schedule if you haven't seen it yet.

The first Tour is in south Georgia and while it is always fun, the courses aren't necessarily what you may see at some of the more wide-open sites. They tend to be runway-ish similar to what you might see at a slightly wider Sanford.

If you're up for it, you might think about doing the back-to-back Arkansas Tour and Pro. You can leave your car out there between events to help with gas costs. They have a big hanger onsite designated for that and a bunch of people take advantage of it. Some people also fly in and out of Memphis which isn't too far from the site. The site is huge and will give you a great taste of what you might see out in Lincoln. If you decide you like the Pro format, you can pick up the DC Pro a few weeks later which is easily the most accessible national site we have in our area.

The Pros might give you a little better competition since the ladies classes at the Tours can be sparsely populated. Or you can run in open class. Heck, you already laid the smack down on one of the regular HS open class competitors at the NCAC.

No matter what you do, you'll have plenty of help and support from a bunch of familiar faces in the area.

Jim

Maria Winslow · **Posted:** Mon Nov 30, 2009 8:59 pm

Gwen Baake wrote:

Besides, if I go to a Tour and get left in a pile of weasel dust, I’ll know for sure that I’m not “Nationals material”. A notion I’ve held for sometime. :cry:

Gwen, of all the instructors and people I've asked advice of, you are one of the best. You can't teach something you don't know

Chuck Branscomb · **Posted:** Mon Nov 30, 2009 10:00 pm

Gwen Baake wrote:

Besides, if I go to a Tour and get left in a pile of weasel dust, I’ll know for sure that I’m not “Nationals material”. A notion I’ve held for sometime. :cry:

Gwen,

I think the mental state going to a Tour event should be relaxed, happy to be there and focused. No matter how you perform on any given day, you're just as much deserving to be there as anyone else. Go with the belief that you can win. Know that if you simply practice all you've learned, you will do very well. In any case, get in the right mindset now since if you can't create it within first, if you can't visualize it, feel it, it likely won't materialize in real time. If you have a limiting belief about how you might perform at such an event, part of you will strive to create that limited outcome.

Remember that there are only three ingredients to modeling human achievement: mental states, mental strategies and beliefs. At the core are the beliefs however since everything else is built on those. All driver improvement courses I've taken over the years almost always focus on mental strategies with minor mention of mental states and zero attention to beliefs.

Chuck

Gwen Habenicht · **Posted:** Mon Nov 30, 2009 10:44 pm

JamesFeinberg wrote:

Do you have an idea about which events you might attend?
Jim

We've looked at doing the Dixie in March, Eastern in Ark in May, and Finger Lakes in July. I've noticed that entry for ladies in HS is low on the Tours. I thought I'd probably just run in Open. It would push me to do my best and I'd get to meet H Stockers that I'm sure to run into @ Nationals. I also appreciate being reminded that there are always folks around that I already know ready to help out. That means alot.

Chuck, Thanks for the reminder. I didn’t mean what I said to sound quite so pathetic. We always say that your brain doesn’t want your mouth to be a liar. I do actually "get" the positive thinking. I just tend to understate things on the one hand, and I am reassured when I do as well as I do on the other. It is an exciting prospect to compete against others from other parts of the country.

Maria, thanks for the kind words. I don't know if it's that I know much. It could just be my passion for the sport that I want to share.

Gwennie

BriceJohnson · **Joined:** Thu Apr 13, 2006 7:33 am **Posts:** 2230

all this talk makes me want to take my sway bar off, go back to my stock intake, and buy a set of stock wheels and hoosiers

maybe next year when the budget allows (hopefully the 3 will still be a competitive H-stock car by then). Man it'll be nice when my wife gets a job.

Chuck Branscomb · **Posted:** Tue Dec 01, 2009 10:00 am

Gwen Baake wrote:

It is an exciting prospect to compete against others from other parts of the country.

Yeah, I agree. I've often looked at people I know locally and how they've done at these events and calculated where I might have ended up had I gone. If you run some estimates like these it will give you an idea perhaps up front. I've never really had a "pure" setup car to see how I would really do in these types of events however (i.e. using BFG R1s for the past 3 years for example due to long wear whereas these things would never be used at a Tour or National event if anyone wanted a chance at being in the top 20 in class).

One obvious thing I quickly realized is that you have to really have the car prepared properly for the class to not handicap oneself right off the bat. For example, I had the 330i setup with a "autocross" alignment a couple of years back (minor toe out up front, much less toe-in in back -- near zero). If definitely helped on course with a livelier turn-in, more rotation available compared to stock alignment, etc.

However, the car was almost undriveable on the street. On Hwy 1 down/back to Sanford, it would heavily tramline and follow the road all over the place. To go straight at times required substantial steering input force that would all of the sudden change due to the road lane depressions. It was impossible to leave the alignment like that and use the car on the street, so it was back to "normal" after that.

Sorry for preaching the choir here as I'm not telling anyone stuff they don't know I guess...still dreaming of someday doing what you're planning to do.

jimpastorius · **Posted:** Tue Dec 01, 2009 10:36 am

Gwen, I would work in at least one and possibly two or three Pros. They are a lot more fun and bang for your buck. You will meet just as many people at the Pro as a Tour, possibly more so.

The fly out and back option is pretty cool. I did it for Ft. Myers a few years back. We flew in and out of Tampa, it worked out really well.

As for the mental state, good luck. That is the downfall of many. Personally, I never really handled it well. The best I did was later in the year after running 2 or 3 national events and you kind of get used to it. So it is no big deal. We used to spend hours in the paddock talking about the mental aspect.

And you have to go to win. You need to honest with yourself and admit you want to win. It saves a lot of energy. If you do not want to win, why go? You can pay for a whole year of local and regional events with one trip to a Tour, let alone Nationals.

I am off to Road Atlanta this weekend. Yes, I want to win, although I have never been to the track :-)

Eric Peterson · **Joined:** Mon Sep 01, 2003 10:24 am **Posts:** 494

FWIW, when I started doing National stuff I finished DFL at the first few Pros I attended *and* that was the best driving I'd ever done up to that point. I actually remember being elated on the drives home, even thoguh I had just been taken the to woodshed, because it was just such a great experience. Getting beat up on didn't bother me one bit as the primary reason I went to these events was to learn and become a better driver. I finished DFL at the Pro Finale a couple of times as well.

Everyone is different in regards to expectations. The biggest mistake I've ever made in driving was creating unrealistically high expectations of myself, thereby setting myself up for a lot of pressure and unnecessary hardache to do well. It's OK to push yourself as long as you don't put too much pressure on yourself. Personally, I drive better when I'm either really relaxed or slightly pissed off. I don't try to get myself mad, but when it happens I take advantage of it. My suggestion to folks is simply go to learn, even if you don't do well you're still learning and making yourself a better driver. At the end of the weekend identify one thing you did well and give yourself some credit. Also, identify another lesson learned and/or item that you need to focus on at your next event. That will help create a healthy balance. Or, in my case, it made me slightly less dysfunctional :-)

As far concerns folks have mentioned about having to walk a lot at Nationals... for different reasons the past two years I've only walked the courses a maximum of 4 times. I would have preferred to walk a bit more each year, but I was really sick two years ago and my late arrival this year limited my looks at the course. While I didn't do my best driving, I still did OK. It was another data point that shows how effective visualization is...as it can make up for a limited number of course walks.

Just my 2 cents.

Eric

DickRasmussen · **Posted:** Tue Dec 01, 2009 12:25 pm

A few basics:

Lots of practice (Tours/Pros/Local) against top competition so you are as good as you can become before Nats on a proven car setup.
Stay away from low traction surfaces before Nats.
Don't change the car before Nats and avoid changing it between runs.
LEARN the courses so you KNOW where to floor it and what the right lines are.
Drive hard and smart and remember that with only three runs the car can go faster than you just drove it. Focus on EXECUTION, especially keeping the cornering speeds up and getting on the power sooner. Don't forget to use lines that allow you to straighten the steering so you can go to full throttle without push or wheelspin. Don't try to be king of the late brakers.
Don't expect to drive BETTER than you ever have previously. Drive AS WELL as your known best.

Dick
DS National Champ 1977, second 1978
AS Fourth 1984
ASP National Champ 1986
Lots of CM Nationals trophies as I rapidly became a "Has Been"

Gwen Habenicht · **Posted:** Tue Dec 01, 2009 12:26 pm

Chuck Branscomb wrote:

I've often looked at people I know locally and how they've done at these events and calculated where I might have ended up had I gone. If you run some estimates like these it will give you an idea perhaps up front.

Don't think for a moment that you're the only AX "nurd". :wink:

I've been running numbers since about my second year. Yes, it's one of my tools in goal setting. Don't forget, I was the gal with the calculator in my back pocket long before ipod came out with an app. (Which, by the way I never could get to work properly.)

Chuck Branscomb wrote:

One obvious thing I quickly realized is that you have to really have the car prepared properly for the class to not handicap oneself right off the bat. For example, I had the 330i setup with a "autocross" alignment a couple of years back (minor toe out up front, much less toe-in in back -- near zero). If definitely helped on course with a livelier turn-in, more rotation available compared to stock alignment, etc.

I actually had more toe forward on the 2005 Mini than I do on the ’09. On the green convertible I had 1/16” in front and 0 in the rear. It helped with turn in, but ate tires like you wouldn’t believe on the street. This year I’ve run the Mini neutral and relied on the sport steering option that Mini now offers for quicker response. That was interesting to get a handle on as well. I would just say it was my lack of experience, but I had Jeff Eng as a co-driver earlier in the year and he found the car turned more quickly than expected as well. There was a learning curve. I may talk to Mark Cooper about a tiny bit of toe in the front early next year just to see how it works. Otherwise, I feel like my car is set up pretty well. I've learned a lot about double adjustables this year.

And, stop dreaming and join in! Chuck, I know I'm older than you, but neither of us is getting any younger!

Jim wrote:

As for the mental state, good luck. That is the downfall of many......And you have to go to win. You need to honest with yourself and admit you want to win.

While I’m not immune to mental failings, I think I am often underestimated in the mental attitude department because I kind of have the “speak softly and carry a big stick” attitude publicly on my abilities. Don’t think for a moment that I’m there for any reason other than to win. Many say that the first time at Nationals is so overwhelming that you can’t expect to do very well. “Just go and have fun”. While I always have fun at any autocross, my goal at Nationals will be to have people wondering “where the hell did that gray haired ole lady come from?” Sort of the “hide in the weeds” philosophy. I must admit that I enjoyed the look of astonishment on Joe Austin’s face at NCAC!

DickRasmussen · **Posted:** Tue Dec 01, 2009 12:35 pm

Gwen,

Don't let "first Nationals" bother you. My first serious autocrossing was in 1976 in Northern California. Turned out to be fast so in 1977 I went to Nats for the first time . . . won. Tried to back it up in 1978, screwed up and came in second.

True, Nats wasn't as big a production as it is now, but neither were the Northern California events that I attended in preparation. Just give yourself plenty of time to do all the stuff like tech, course walking, etc. After that it is just an autocross.

Dick

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