⚠ Forum Archived — The THSCC forums were discontinued (last post: 2024-05-18). This read-only archive preserves club history. Visit thscc.com →  |  Search this archive with Google: site:forums.thscc.com your search terms

THSCC Forums

Tarheel Sports Car Club Forums
It is currently Tue Apr 07, 2026 10:10 am

All times are UTC - 5 hours [ DST ]




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 57 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4

Have it your way
AAO 74%  74%  [ 28 ]
Split run groups THSCC style 26%  26%  [ 10 ]
Total votes : 38
Author Message
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Sep 28, 2009 10:22 pm 
Offline
I got a SUX2000!
User avatar

Joined: Sun Aug 31, 2003 12:07 am
Posts: 2443
Location: In the garage, under a big old Mercedes
Arthur McDonald wrote:
Well, that explains why Mitch Moore was running up and down the grid so much during my heat. Maybe we need two grid workers, both equipped with signal flags (or air horns!) to communicate.

I am starting to see the value of AAO. (Whatever you do, don't tell Dishman I said that) At both Sanford events this year, I managed to get the jitters before my afternoon runs, and made a mess of them. So in my feeble-minded years, maybe it's best to make all of my runs in a row. Also, I don't have to reinflate my tires before the 2nd set of runs.

Of course, the advantages of 2-2 still stand:
1) If you're totally lost in the morning runs, you have an intermediate heat to figure out where you went wrong, or at least have an hour+ to complain to everybody before you go out and screw up again.
2) If you suffer a mechanical failure, or just want to make a big adjustment, you can. In my pre-ABS days, I often found myself between heats rotating tires to move a flat spot to the rear.
3) Event officers can, depending on the progress of the event, opt for 3 or (gasp) 1 run in the afternoon heats.

Final thoughts:
A) The grid scheme above is one step short of being a proper 10-step progam.
B) Michael Czeiszperger, with his excellent grasp of the issues, is a strong contender for club prez in 2011.
C) Chuck B., when he said "that's the way THSCC used to do it", was referring to his early days in the Tarheel Surry & Carriage Club.
:P


Don't worry Art, your secret's safe with me. I won't tell Dishman that you're secretly a member of the "hey, trying new stuff is kind of cool" faction. :lol:

Mitch and I talked about grid on our way out to work for first group of fun runs. He told me "it wasn't so bad," but if I were to do it over, I'd have two grid marshals, one at either end. The one at the far end of the line can help with arranging the cars in their correct locations, sort of like the impound guy does at a National event. They can both carry radios to communicate with each other, since we have plenty of radios. Yesterday's new grid process, should we choose to implement it more frequently, will certainly see running changes and improvements.

To the advantages of 2+2:

1. Well, you're right about that. 2+2 certainly does allow for one to consider carefully their previous session, and make changes to their driving as needed. That's true.

2. For this item, I'm going to disagree, on three counts:
- I saw Keith Vail change two tires on Sunday during an AAO event...and he had a codriver! :shock: So, it can be done.
- If someone has a mechanical issue, we'll certainly allow them to make the necessary repairs. At least, I'd certainly let them fix their car. Rodney, though, he's pretty mean, so he might not. :lol:
- Since you've seen the light and are campaigning a stock-class car that was built in this decade, you won't have any mechanical problems anyway. :wink:

3. Yes, the decision on number of runs for the day can be put off until mid-day when using the split format. This is definitely true. Yet flexibility remains using AAO. Yesterday, Dustin, Rodney, and I made the decision to go for five about 30 minutes into our first heat. Quick math showed us that we could get 93 cars through five timed runs by about 3:00. We missed our mark by half an hour, which I attribute to the shutdowns for worker changes, and the occasional rerun/timing glitch/whatever. Once a launch interval is established, it should be pretty easy to make a call on number of runs.

_________________
Karl S.
2014 Baby, 2014 House, 2013 Ford Focus ST, 2013 BMW 328i, 1994 Mercedes E320
(Insert passive aggressive signature line here)


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Sep 28, 2009 10:26 pm 
Offline
I got a SUX2000!
User avatar

Joined: Sun Aug 31, 2003 12:07 am
Posts: 2443
Location: In the garage, under a big old Mercedes
Aaron Buckley wrote:
While I voted for AAO format, I found at the THSCC day of the combo 2 day with Triad that the run groups were too small to adequately get at least 5 minutes after your run


Agreed 100%, Aaron. I suspect this is part of what drove the worker change coordinators' decision to do three run groups yesterday. Two run groups makes for long worker shifts, and four run groups would have been a repeat of the issue you stated above.

To all: this is excellent input. Thank you very much, and keep it coming. :)

_________________
Karl S.
2014 Baby, 2014 House, 2013 Ford Focus ST, 2013 BMW 328i, 1994 Mercedes E320
(Insert passive aggressive signature line here)


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Sep 28, 2009 11:03 pm 
Offline
JACKASS!!!
User avatar

Joined: Mon Oct 27, 2003 9:47 am
Posts: 3683
Aaron Buckley wrote:
While I voted for AAO format, I found at the THSCC day of the combo 2 day with Triad that the run groups were too small to adequately get at least 5 minutes after your run to cool tires, check pressures, make adjustments etc, especially if you're alone. After feeling like I rushed out for my 2nd run, I checked my watch after parking in grid after my 2nd and 3rd runs. I got 2:45 in between my 2nd and 3rd run and 3:15 between my 3rd and 4th run.


Did you ask the grid worker for more time? Sometimes the simplest solution is communication. After all, this is supposed to be a fun hobby.

:)

_________________
Has no responsibility whatsoever.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Sep 29, 2009 9:15 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu Aug 28, 2003 8:07 pm
Posts: 744
Location: Cary, NC
Karl Shultz wrote:
He told me "it wasn't so bad," but if I were to do it over, I'd have two grid marshals, one at either end. The one at the far end of the line can help with arranging the cars in their correct locations, sort of like the impound guy does at a National event. They can both carry radios to communicate with each other, since we have plenty of radios.


Given the importance of communicating cone calls & DNFs between the course workers and bus, I'd caution against adding more chatter to the radios while the event is running. Maybe the grid guys could talk to each other on a different channel? (Although that would make it very difficult for grid to communicate with the bus when they need to, like when a car number in grid does not appear on the grid sheets.)

_________________
Keith Q.
2008 Top Gun
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KmX8XuZ_DCo&NR=1


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Sep 29, 2009 12:16 pm 
Offline
Token nudist
User avatar

Joined: Thu Aug 28, 2003 11:42 am
Posts: 2623
Location: Lost in Eastern N. Carolina
Karl Shultz wrote:
Arthur McDonald wrote:
3. Yes, the decision on number of runs for the day can be put off until mid-day when using the split format. This is definitely true. Yet flexibility remains using AAO. Yesterday, Dustin, Rodney, and I made the decision to go for five about 30 minutes into our first heat. Quick math showed us that we could get 93 cars through five timed runs by about 3:00. We missed our mark by half an hour, which I attribute to the shutdowns for worker changes, and the occasional rerun/timing glitch/whatever. Once a launch interval is established, it should be pretty easy to make a call on number of runs.


The AAO format actually works out better if we increase the number of runs. In the past, the same group of workers always got screwed because we add runs at the end of the day increasing their work shift. Since we almost never changed the group composition the same group always work longer. :thumbsup:

Dammit, I am starting to prefer the AAO format. :?


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Sep 29, 2009 12:41 pm 
Offline
I err on the side of being stupid
User avatar

Joined: Thu Aug 28, 2003 10:15 pm
Posts: 4743
Location: Greenville, NC
RobLupella wrote:
Dammit, I am starting to prefer the AAO format.
:?


I have had the same epiphany recently as well.

_________________
02 Focus SVT
STF 9


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Sep 29, 2009 1:54 pm 
Offline
I hate working the course at autox and I must tell you about it, often.

Joined: Fri Aug 29, 2003 12:53 am
Posts: 1718
Dustin Fredrickson wrote:
FWIW, we wouldn't need a break with 4 groups, as there is always a break between when you run and work.

Run 1, Work 3, off 2+4.
Run 2, Work 4, off 1+3
Run 3, Work 1, off 2+4
Run 4, Work 2, off 1+3


Just to add another variation. One region actually runs morning and afternoon split sessions. You sign up for morning or afternoon. So the format is:

Run 1, Work 2, go home, hang out, whatever.
Run 2, Work 1, go home, hang out, whatever.

Run 3, Work 4, go home.
Run 4, Work 3, go home.

For some only having to give up half a day for AX is appealing. I don't know how they get it to work but they do it. They are not an SCCA club.

_________________
http://www.greywinds.com


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Sep 29, 2009 2:01 pm 
Offline
Tire Nerd
User avatar

Joined: Sun Nov 07, 2004 1:40 pm
Posts: 1818
Location: Greenville, SC
Graham Jagger wrote:
Dustin Fredrickson wrote:
FWIW, we wouldn't need a break with 4 groups, as there is always a break between when you run and work.

Run 1, Work 3, off 2+4.
Run 2, Work 4, off 1+3
Run 3, Work 1, off 2+4
Run 4, Work 2, off 1+3


Just to add another variation. One region actually runs morning and afternoon split sessions. You sign up for morning or afternoon. So the format is:

Run 1, Work 2, go home, hang out, whatever.
Run 2, Work 1, go home, hang out, whatever.

Run 3, Work 4, go home.
Run 4, Work 3, go home.

For some only having to give up half a day for AX is appealing. I don't know how they get it to work but they do it. They are not an SCCA club.


This is the way the SCCA DC region used to run events back in the 80's (don't know if they still do or not), and I know the BMWCCA region up there still runs events this way. I will say that when I ran those SCCA events back then that socializing was very difficult as almost everyone was in the mode of show up and work/run and leave. The positive side was having at least 1/2 a Sunday left or more to do things at home, and having a baby at home back then made it especially easy to duck out early, run autox, and be back home before lunch.

_________________
Current stable:
2019 BMW M2 Competition slicktop 6MT
2011 BMW M3 sedan slicktop 6MT
2007 BMW 328i wagon (slushbox for now)
1975 CanAm 125MX2


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Sep 29, 2009 2:19 pm 
Offline
JACKASS!!!
User avatar

Joined: Mon Oct 27, 2003 9:47 am
Posts: 3683
Chuck Branscomb wrote:
This is the way the SCCA DC region used to run events back in the 80's (don't know if they still do or not).


They do still do that, and churn through 350+ competitors for their FedEx Field events.

_________________
Has no responsibility whatsoever.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Sep 29, 2009 4:55 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon Oct 18, 2004 11:18 am
Posts: 1731
Location: dp in the making
that is just insane!!!


[
They do still do that, and churn through 350+ competitors for their FedEx Field events.[/quote]

_________________
[color=#FFFFFF][/color]http://www.usedmiatapartsonline.com for all your used miata parts needs
http://www.wagnersauto.com for your salvage needs
2000 miata se Estreet,going to rally
2004 mazdaspeed miata bsp #77
shifter kart also(someone buy this $1500)


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Sep 29, 2009 5:07 pm 
Offline
Token nudist
User avatar

Joined: Thu Aug 28, 2003 11:42 am
Posts: 2623
Location: Lost in Eastern N. Carolina
Chuck Branscomb wrote:
Graham Jagger wrote:
Dustin Fredrickson wrote:
FWIW, we wouldn't need a break with 4 groups, as there is always a break between when you run and work.

Run 1, Work 3, off 2+4.
Run 2, Work 4, off 1+3
Run 3, Work 1, off 2+4
Run 4, Work 2, off 1+3


Just to add another variation. One region actually runs morning and afternoon split sessions. You sign up for morning or afternoon. So the format is:

Run 1, Work 2, go home, hang out, whatever.
Run 2, Work 1, go home, hang out, whatever.

Run 3, Work 4, go home.
Run 4, Work 3, go home.

For some only having to give up half a day for AX is appealing. I don't know how they get it to work but they do it. They are not an SCCA club.


I will say that when I ran those SCCA events back then that socializing was very difficult as almost everyone was in the mode of show up and work/run and leave. .


This is Graham you are talking about so socializing would count as a negative - so that is two positives for him for that format. :P


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Sep 30, 2009 12:59 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu Aug 28, 2003 5:50 pm
Posts: 616
Location: Cary
I would love to see the split day AAO format run, As being able to arrive or leave in the middle of the day would probably enable me to make more autocross's in the future, of course having a running autocross car would help that more than anything right now.

_________________
David Teague
2015 Lexus IS 250c
1994 Honda Del Sol HS 39
2009 Dodge Journey R/T
http://teaguefamily.us


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 57 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4

All times are UTC - 5 hours [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group