What classes can a Miata run?

MartynWheeler · **Joined:** Mon Jan 02, 2006 9:30 pm **Posts:** 303

Aaron Buckley wrote:

Wes Eargle wrote:

Nothing left on the table. Everything is done that can be done to the car, the only variable in the equation is the driver. Except Karl's wrong, he has a 9.5/10ths car because he hasn't opened the motor up for the 1st factory overbore yet.

Eeek. If people are actually going to those lengths in stock class, it would surprise me. Spending that same $1-2k on SoloPro schools would gain you more than that.

- AB

And once you've spent that $1-2k on SoloPro schools, you can spend the next $1-2k on the overbore. Your point is...?

The main thing about stock is that there is a very restrictive limit to how much you can do, and therefore a quite restrictive limit to how much you can spend. Also, since you're still dealing with limitations of the stock car, you very quickly run into diminishing returns, where it really doesn't matter whether you spend that last $2k or not.

About the most you could spend on stock with an unlimited budget is probably custom made ultralight wheels and fresh tyres for every event, with spare wheels to change between runs in case they were a little too ultralight. That would make a much more noticeable difference than an overbore, and let you spend a whole lot more money.

Never underestimate the ability of people to throw money at motorsport.

Fortunately, most of the people like that have a tendency to try to fix their failure to win by throwing more money at it, instead of driving better. And so still lose.

jeremy gast · **Posted:** Wed Aug 12, 2009 11:45 am

wendy and I had talked about moving her 03 from csp down to str but the issue with street tires and blah blah blah comes up. I still need to do more research on the str rules.

I personally like csp in my 1.6 miata. nice and run

Wes Eargle · **Joined:** Mon Oct 27, 2003 9:47 am **Posts:** 3683

Aaron Buckley wrote:

If I had a 10AE, I would be buying some stock wheels, some off the shelf Koni SA's, a bigger front bar and some r-compounds. That car in stock form is a joy and is still very competitive, even at the National level. If Nationals stayed at Heartland Park with it's relatively slow courses, I think the 6spd in the 10AE combined with the stock torsen would be a killer car. - AB

This.

Aaron Buckley · **Posted:** Wed Aug 12, 2009 12:11 pm

MartynWheeler wrote:

About the most you could spend on stock with an unlimited budget is probably custom made ultralight wheels and fresh tyres for every event, with spare wheels to change between runs in case they were a little too ultralight. That would make a much more noticeable difference than an overbore, and let you spend a whole lot more money.

You can easily spend a whole lot more than that in stock form. I've seen front swaybars that are $900. Wheel sets over $4k and shocks that are north of $5,500. When you mention tires, the cost for a set for the C6 is nearly $1500, prior to shipping & mounting. Thus the reason why I ran flipped, clapped out Hoosiers at this past weekend's events.

While throwing money at a car can make you a bit faster, nothing will improve your times more than seat time, schools and constantly working on your skills. Both my co-driver and I plan on doing a couple of SoloPro schools either later this year or early next year. I haven't been to a school since 2001 when I took Phase 1 of Evo, and I really need some guidance. - AB

Graham Jagger · **Joined:** Fri Aug 29, 2003 12:53 am **Posts:** 1718

MartynWheeler wrote:

Never underestimate the ability of people to throw money at motorsport.

Fortunately, most of the people like that have a tendency to try to fix their failure to win by throwing more money at it, instead of driving better. And so still lose.

I agree Martyn. Even in so called "Amateur Motorsports", there are those with more money than you and have no fear of pouring it into the car.

While there are probably many who have that money and lack talent. There are also the ringers with more natural talent than most of us could ever buy and/or learn our way into. They tend to get sponsors easily. People like Mathew Braun or Danny Popp et al. If you want to run Nationals those are the types you must boot off the throne.

Or if you just want to have fun run stock class with its very limited upgrades. Then take lots of schools. Seat, seat time. You either have talent or don't at that point.

If I was going to start back in again I would get an S2K, change shocks and front bar, and add the lightest wheels with Hoosiers. After driving 2 different S2Ks on street tires. I can appreciate why Karl doesn't want to give up the slicks. I like that Hoosier crack.

Anything in the Prep and Mod class can easily turn into a spending contest.

Donnie Barnes · **Posted:** Wed Aug 12, 2009 1:22 pm

Actually, prep and mod can be run pretty cheaply. Well, okay, let's classify things some, anyway.

If you are going to race your daily driver, then stock makes the most sense. Period.

But, if you're going to be going with a pretty much dedicated autocross car anyway, then I think prep and modified have their places. Some prep and mod classes are actually cheaper than MANY of the "stock" classes to be competitive nationally. Remember, too, that stock class dominant cars change every few years, generally. That's not as often the case with prep and mod cars, or even SP cars. Inexpensive classes for preparation that are above stock that come to mind are FSP, EP, GP, FM (ick), and even DM.

You do need to know more about car prep (or be willing to learn), obviously, but if that's your thing then any of those classes is long term cheaper than going racing in SS or probably even AS. Assuming you're trailering and all that anyway, that is.

Just fuel for the fire.

--Donnie

Keith Vail · **Posted:** Wed Aug 12, 2009 3:19 pm

Donnie Barnes wrote:

Inexpensive classes for preparation that are above stock that come to mind are FSP, EP, GP, FM (ick), and even DM.

If I was to do an inexpensive build right now that was not a dedicated street car, I would look no further than the limited prep GP. You can buy and build an 88-91 Civic/CRX DX for not a ton of money and you are limited to 13x6 inch wheels.

Donnie Barnes · **Posted:** Wed Aug 12, 2009 3:58 pm

Keith Vail wrote:

Donnie Barnes wrote:

Inexpensive classes for preparation that are above stock that come to mind are FSP, EP, GP, FM (ick), and even DM.

If I was to do an inexpensive build right now that was not a dedicated street car, I would look no further than the limited prep GP. You can buy and build an 88-91 Civic/CRX DX for not a ton of money and you are limited to 13x6 inch wheels.

Exactly. A lot of people are jumping on the limited prep bandwagon for GP, too. There's an EP car on eBay right now, too, that looks decent for the money.

--Donnie

Ryan Holton · **Posted:** Wed Aug 12, 2009 4:26 pm

Donnie Barnes wrote:

There's an EP car on eBay right now, too, that looks decent for the money.

--Donnie

The yellow one owned by the grammatically challenged guy? Yeah, that looks like a ton of fun and MAY even have the VTAK YO

Donnie Barnes · **Posted:** Wed Aug 12, 2009 4:28 pm

Ryan Holton wrote:

Donnie Barnes wrote:

There's an EP car on eBay right now, too, that looks decent for the money.

The yellow one owned by the grammatically challenged guy? Yeah, that looks like a ton of fun and MAY even have the VTAK YO

Yeah, the ad is bad, but I think the car is actually decent, FOR THE MONEY.

--Donnie

DickRasmussen · **Posted:** Wed Aug 12, 2009 7:08 pm

Donnie Barnes wrote:

Actually, prep and mod can be run pretty cheaply. Well, okay, let's classify things some, anyway.

If you are going to race your daily driver, then stock makes the most sense. Period.

But, if you're going to be going with a pretty much dedicated autocross car anyway, then I think prep and modified have their places. Some prep and mod classes are actually cheaper than MANY of the "stock" classes to be competitive nationally. Remember, too, that stock class dominant cars change every few years, generally. That's not as often the case with prep and mod cars, or even SP cars. Inexpensive classes for preparation that are above stock that come to mind are FSP, EP, GP, FM (ick), and even DM.

You do need to know more about car prep (or be willing to learn), obviously, but if that's your thing then any of those classes is long term cheaper than going racing in SS or probably even AS. Assuming you're trailering and all that anyway, that is.

Just fuel for the fire.

--Donnie

Don't forget CM which used to be the 3rd fastest class at Nationals if F125 isn't counted. I think Heartland Park screwed that up but Lincoln might bring it back if grip is decent. Easy to tow, rules stability, looks NEAT, long autocross component and engine life, simple to work on. Competitive (except for aging driver and a couple of new prep options that I don't have) without the need for megabuck shocks, etc. The only times I need to be UNDER the car are to clean the underside of the floor and dry sump.

FYI I plan on autocrossing it again this weekend at VMP. First autocross in 2 years for me, the car, and the tires.

Matt McGrain · **Posted:** Thu Aug 13, 2009 8:38 am

I've never run a modified car at any of the events but I'll agree with the fact that a stock car (eventually on R-comps) is the way to go to increase your learning curve.

I really miss driving the ITR on 95,000 mile shocks, a stock front sway, Honda pads, 11.5 lb Millenia wheels and a fresh set of V710's. Bliss!

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