Placement of the bus

Keith Quistorff · **Posted:** Mon Apr 27, 2009 10:21 am

Agreed, it was an excellent event. Kudos to the event organizers for putting together another successful fundraiser for cancer research, a very worthwhile cause that has effected most of us in one way or another.

(Rant on.)
That said, there was one issue that needs to be addressed for future events - placement of the bus in relation to the start line. It's been a couple seasons since this was discussed (and resolved, at least until this weekend) - the bus needs to be located close enough to the start line for Timing & Scoring to see the car class/numbers. The event was slowed significantly yesterday by the fact that Timing & Scoring could not see the car class & numbers from the bus. I worked raw sheets in the second heat and had to hold start several times just to get caught up on car numbers because I just couldn't see them. It was extremely frustrating, as anyone in the bus can attest to. Grabbing the binoculars was useless as the angle was too sharp to see the needed info once a car got up near the start line (besides the fact that there wasn't enough time to deal with binoculars along with recording & acknowledging penalties and raw times). And radio communications with the starting line worker just didn't work, it just added undiscernable chatter to the already busy radios and caused a lot of repeat call requirements.

My recollection from a couple seasons ago (the last time this was a problem) was that we agreed to place the bus near the start line for all future autocrosses. I'm asking that we readdress this again as it results in events running so much smoother, faster, and easier with significantly better timing/scoring accuracy.

(Rant off.)

BriceJohnson · **Joined:** Thu Apr 13, 2006 7:33 am **Posts:** 2230

Keith Quistorff wrote:

(Rant on.)
That said, there was one issue that needs to be addressed for future events - placement of the bus in relation to the start line. It's been a couple seasons since this was discussed (and resolved, at least until this weekend) - the bus needs to be located close enough to the start line for Timing & Scoring to see the car class/numbers. The event was slowed significantly yesterday by the fact that Timing & Scoring could not see the car class & numbers from the bus. I worked raw sheets in the second heat and had to hold start several times just to get caught up on car numbers because I just couldn't see them. It was extremely frustrating, as anyone in the bus can attest to. Grabbing the binoculars was useless as the angle was too sharp to see the needed info once a car got up near the start line (besides the fact that there wasn't enough time to deal with binoculars along with recording & acknowledging penalties and raw times). And radio communications with the starting line worker just didn't work, it just added undiscernable chatter to the already busy radios and caused a lot of repeat call requirements.

My recollection from a couple seasons ago (the last time this was a problem) was that we agreed to place the bus near the start line for all future autocrosses. I'm asking that we readdress this again as it results in events running so much smoother, faster, and easier with significantly better timing/scoring accuracy.

(Rant off.)

It wasn't THAT bad but I did notice this problem as well. I DID like that we could easily see the car finishing out in front of us to verify that we had the right cars, but the angle did make things tough to see at the start. Part of it is probably just the nature of Sanford being such a long a skinny site.

The biggest problem I had was ambiguous cone calls came in at the worst time. I had one "+1 on TIR. . . I didn't catch the number" when of course there were two TIR cars on course, and another time I had "+1 on the imprezza" and actually had two imprezza's on course.

BriceJohnson · **Joined:** Thu Apr 13, 2006 7:33 am **Posts:** 2230

I think it wasn't too bad for me b/c the grid worker kept almost 8 cars in line during my heat. I usually caught them as they went by, but if I didn't there was enough buffer at the start that they were still close enough for me to see, or at least not at such a terrible angle.

Gwen Habenicht · **Posted:** Mon Apr 27, 2009 1:43 pm

As a sidebar to this conversation by someone who was in the bus announcing during the 2nd heat, but not under the pressure that T&S is under, I have a couple of observations. As a matter of fact, Kendt Eklund and I even discussed this later in the day. (His take as one of the worker coordinators who couldn’t reach his course workers by radio.) Perhaps we should review at every driver’s meeting about how the radios work (Yes, I know, it was said to press the button and wait a second. That was good.)---and how to follow through on a course call as part of course working. Once we’ve been doing this for a while and become somewhat involved with the inter-workings of our events, we probably forget that many of those at the drivers meeting only come “casually” and, simply aren’t aware of things. Some might be surprised that many don’t really even know how to work the radio. Holding it an inch from your mouth and yelling gives the guys in the bus static, but not much else. I noticed many calls came to Keith where the caller was already talking when he keyed the microphone, so Keith was only getting “+1”. I guess the course worker had already said the number and class before the mic was active. Then, they didn’t wait for a conformation, so must have just put the radio down. So, when he asked them to repeat a call, nothing happened. So, making this understood at every drivers meeting, no matter how boring it seems, should be a must. Also, in the year + that I've been announcing, there were more calls yesterday than I've ever heard that were just "that red car" or the "tir" car. That was pretty weird. Especially when there were 3 red cars or two TIR cars on course at the same time.

I'm done.

Stephen Westerfield · **Posted:** Mon Apr 27, 2009 2:05 pm

Keith Quistorff wrote:

BriceJohnson wrote:

It wasn't THAT bad.

Well it was THAT bad for me.

I'd like to hear how others on raw sheets did. Maybe I'm just not cut out for raw sheets.

Brice - how were you getting car numbers at the start line? Were you writing them down as the start worker called them in or catching them as the cars passed by? I had major problems with both, mainly because cars would often drive by at times when I couldn't look, and I couldn't hear/understand the starter when he called out car class/numbers.

I'll second Keith's comments. I worked Raw Sheets 4th heat and it was tough. If you had the starter calling in a car, someone hitting cones, and someone crossing the finish all at the same time, it got hectic. I was able to recognize most of the cars as they drove up to the start, but there were a number of them that I had to wait until the starter called the car in. Some distance between bus and start is ok, but it has to be such that you can see the numbers with the binoculars. Yesterday's angle didn't allow that.

Les Davis · **Joined:** Fri Aug 29, 2003 2:04 pm **Posts:** 2059

Keith Quistorff wrote:

BriceJohnson wrote:

It wasn't THAT bad.

Well it was THAT bad for me.

I'd like to hear how others on raw sheets did. Maybe I'm just not cut out for raw sheets.

Brice - how were you getting car numbers at the start line? Were you writing them down as the start worker called them in or catching them as the cars passed by? I had major problems with both, mainly because cars would often drive by at times when I couldn't look, and I couldn't hear/understand the starter when he called out car class/numbers.

I did raw sheets in the first heat, and for me it wasn't that bad either. However, there really weren't many cone calls during my heat and the course workers generally used the radio's well, so that is probably why. I tried to write the numbers of the cars down as they drove by and if I missed one, I'd just leave an empty slot and wait for that car to pull up to the starter to get that one. It was definitely a bit hectic at times, and not being able to see start always makes it harder for T&S for me it wasn't horrible.

Karl Shultz · **Posted:** Mon Apr 27, 2009 3:02 pm

I worked in the bus on Saturday, and didn't have a problem. I usually do raw sheets during my shift in the bus, and I didn't find it any more difficult than it's ever been.

Stephen Westerfield · **Posted:** Mon Apr 27, 2009 4:04 pm

Karl Shultz wrote:

I worked in the bus on Saturday, and didn't have a problem. I usually do raw sheets during my shift in the bus, and I didn't find it any more difficult than it's ever been.

The bus and start were a bit far on Saturday, but it worked out better than Sunday for a few reasons. There were a lot less cone/dnf calls (at least during 1st heat) on Saturday and the car also passed right in front of you coming off the line just in case you couldn't read the number from a distance and didn't catch the starters call.

Wes Eargle · **Joined:** Mon Oct 27, 2003 9:47 am **Posts:** 3683

<officer hat on>

We can't do anything about the situation if we don't know about it. Nobody mentioned anything to me when I checked in with the bus a couple of times during the 1st heat. It only takes a couple of minutes to reorient the bus to make things easier for timing.

<officer hat off>

Michael Westerfield · **Posted:** Mon Apr 27, 2009 4:30 pm

Posting about the event before mid-week after an event just shouldn't be allowed. Isn't this topic on Richard's list? :lol:

steve remchak · **Posted:** Mon Apr 27, 2009 5:11 pm

as i realize the worker coordinator job sucks enough already, i would suggest assigning duties at each station. Billy gets the radio, Lil' Johnny shags cones and Suzi holds the red flag. Billy is station chief.

god forbid we have a car catch fire while the dimwits that can't even call in a cone properly stand and watch it burn.

and yes i do know this post is on Richard's list. :twisted:

Jeb Brookshire · **Posted:** Mon Apr 27, 2009 7:25 pm

For a site like this could you add a "helper" that could inform the bus as to who is approaching the start and then the cars are confirmed at the line by the starter? In the case of this past Sunday someone with a radio could have been posted at the cross over to "check the cars in" to T&S and then the starter just repeats the car numbers to verify/eliminate confusion. I think that someone could volunteer for that job for each heat.

Or is this a bad idea?

steve remchak · **Posted:** Mon Apr 27, 2009 7:35 pm

Jeb Brookshire wrote:

For a site like this could you add a "helper" that could inform the bus as to who is approaching the start and then the cars are confirmed at the line by the starter? In the case of this past Sunday someone with a radio could have been posted at the cross over to "check the cars in" to T&S and then the starter just repeats the car numbers to verify/eliminate confusion. I think that someone could volunteer for that job for each heat.

Or is this a bad idea?

one thing i noticed that appeared to be different from years past was the disorder in grid. cars seemed to be parked in all sorts of variations. time to crack the whip on A & B gridding IMO.

please remember my comments are solely meant to be constructive. it has been 2 years or so since i have attended an autoX and i noticed some things.

the event was foremost safe and additionally fun.

Nathan Raymond · **Posted:** Mon Apr 27, 2009 8:21 pm

Do the people working grid normally carry a walkie? I was WAAAY down the course (and clearly didn't know what was going on) but I could hear the worker at the start gate continuosly hollaring for more cars from grid.

Also, in defense of the course workers in the 4th heat, there were at least 3 cars that were missing classes AND numbers from at least one side of their vehicle. That may have contributed to some of the "+1 on the red car", etc. Clearly that wasn't the ONLY reason but it was cause for a few.

edit: grid was a bit hairy too. One side seemed to park entirely on the asphalt and the other side parked with the back halves of the cars in the grass and the front halves on the asphalt. That left a tiny bit of room to barely fit the cars through as that part of the road is VERY skinny.

Todd Breakey · **Posted:** Mon Apr 27, 2009 8:40 pm

[HoS hat on]

The placement of the bus was not ideal, but it rarely is. Usually we just work around it and nobody hears about it. What we should have done on Sunday was put up the "HOLD HERE" sign like we have done in the past (usually at Sanford). That would have eased the issue with getting the class and numbers.

Adding chatter (the helper calling in class and number) would just add to the confusion. It can already be congested on the radio with cone calls, confirming those calls, starter calling in cars on the line, the starter calling to grid for more cars and the occasional call to an officer.

I like the station chief idea. I believe that is the way that the SCCA does it. The station capitan is responsible for calling cone calls as well as writing them down on a spread sheet. I think the spreadsheet would be overkill but it might not be a bad idea to designate one person for each duty with the understanding that the radio guy will have to shag cones if there are a bunch down.

As for the number issue, this is something that the GRID worker needs to look for. If the car does not have the CORRECT class and number on BOTH sides of the car, then the car does not get sent to the line. The driver has to take the time to get it fixed then they can take their run.

This is also the responsibility of the driver to ensure that they have all the correct information on their car. If they have the wrong information (i.e. their codrivers number) on the car, that run will get credited to their codriver. If the drivers are close on time, like Jim and Dave are, then it becomes VERTY difficult to determine who's run is who's.

This is my BIGGEST frustration with T&S. If we could just get everyone to have the correct number and class on both sides of their car, then all will be right with the world.

[HoS hat off]

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