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 Post subject: SCCA New Supplemental Classes - STU and ST2
PostPosted: Wed Feb 18, 2004 12:20 am 
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The Solo Events Board met at the SCCA National Convention in Kansas
City February 6th through 8th. Attending were SEB Chairman Colan Arnold, board members Chris Dorsey, Mari Clements, Ron Bauer, Andy Hollis, Marcus Merideth, Mark Sipe, and Mark Sirota. Also attending were Tasha Goodale, Howard Duncan and Doug Gill of the National Staff, and BOD liaison Bob Introne.

During this meeting, the SEB discussed and approved the addition of two
supplemental classes to National Tour events; STS2 and STU. These
classes reflect what the SEB envisions to be the continued growth of the Street Touring category, and are being evaluated in conjunction with
evaluation of the feasibility of combining several less-subscribed classes and of restructuring some less-subscribed preparation categories.

Reflecting the success of the ST concept both nationally and regionally, the two supplemental classes were developed as the next logical steps in
the progression of this category. Variants of one or both of these classes
are already being offered in several regions across the country.

STS2 will follow the STS rule set, but the eligible cars will be
restricted to two-seaters with engine displacements of 1.8 liters or less. This class will provide a home for a number of popular vehicles, including the Honda CRX and del Sol, Mazda RX7 (non-turbo, '79-'92) and Miata ('90-'97), Toyota MR2 ('85-'89), as well as other similar vehicles. STS category rules 14.1 to 14.10 apply. Further, as in STS, only original equipment viscous limited slip differentials are legal in STS-2. Excluded vehicles include Lotus (all), Mazda Miata (99+), and Toyota MR2 ('91-'95 and '00+).

STU will follow the STX rule set, but will raise the displacement limit
for otherwise STX-legal vehicles to 3.1 liters for forced induction and to
unlimited displacement for natural aspiration. To accommodate the
greater power of these vehicles, restrictions on wheel width are lifted and the maximum tire width will be increased to 275 for front or rear wheel
drive vehicles (but will remain at 245 for AWD vehicles). Other than these limited exceptions, the STX rule set as described in 14.11 applies.
This class extends the Street Touring concept to cars including the Audi S4, BMW M3 (E36), Chevrolet Camaro, Dodge Neon SRT-4, Ford Mustang, Mazda RX-8, Mitsubishi Lancer Evo. 8, Pontiac Firebird, Pontiac GTO, Subaru WRX STi, Volvo S60 R, and Toyota Supra. Excluded vehicles include the E46 M3 and the E39 M5.

In conjunction with the planned evolution of this category and of the
sport as a whole, these two supplemental classes will not be considered for full national status until 2007. One or both classes could then potentially be recommended for full national status provided that rules stability is attained, member participation is strong, and the classes continue to reflect the needs of the current enthusiast market.

Please feel free to forward this information to other lists.

-Chris Dorsey
RMDiv. SEB

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Feb 18, 2004 10:10 am 
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Will the CRX Si follow in the footsteps of the 88-91 Civic Si's and dominate? Hmmmm.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Feb 18, 2004 10:13 am 
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Nah, the CRX isn't going to be as good as a Miata. A first gen MR2 is pretty compelling too, I'm not sure if the supercharged (1.6 liter) version is legal or not, but it would kick some Honda tail!

Scott


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Feb 18, 2004 10:22 am 
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Does THSCC plan to recognize these supplemental classes? These classes were recognized in Atlanta this past weekend.

If THSCC does recognize these classes, is there a need for a TIR class?

With the addition of these two classes and clear rules (at least to start out with) eliminates 99% of the justification for TIR. The remaining 1% is only for cars excluded from having a Street Touring class.

Maybe make the TIR class open only to cars excluded from Street Touring.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Feb 18, 2004 10:43 am 
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So is the addition of more ST classes going to eat into SP (and Stock) participants or will it bring in new people?

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Feb 18, 2004 10:57 am 
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jimpastorius wrote:
Does THSCC plan to recognize these supplemental classes? These classes were recognized in Atlanta this past weekend.

If THSCC does recognize these classes, is there a need for a TIR class?

With the addition of these two classes and clear rules (at least to start out with) eliminates 99% of the justification for TIR. The remaining 1% is only for cars excluded from having a Street Touring class.

Maybe make the TIR class open only to cars excluded from Street Touring.


With half of the autocross officers out of the contry it won't be decided this week (but discussions will start). I do agree, we are almost at the point of saturation here. The only cars excluded from the ST theme are now 2 seat larg*ish* displacement cars. Ironically, I think that the 1.8 liter ruling is crap, the 2nd gen NA MR2 fits the spirit of ST2 nicely.

The S2000, 3rd gen MR2, Corvettes, and a few others are now the only excluded cars... Those and over prepared cars on street tires (not a large percentage of the population).

Richard Casto wrote:
So is the addition of more ST classes going to eat into SP (and Stock) participants or will it bring in new people?


THSCC and SCCA are basically at capacity for events, so we will not be seeing any extra faces, thus these new classes *will* eat into the participation of other classes. I think it's time for a new SCCA rule. It should address a total number of classes, and for every *new* class there needs to be one eliminated.

Scott


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Feb 18, 2004 11:02 am 
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Funny thing, right now the 94-97 Miata is not legal in ST2 :) The displacement is 1839 CC, a little over the 1.8 rule.

Well, with the first event a month away, it would be nice to have THSCC come out with their ruling soon. Or we can follow the SCCA and announce the class at the event.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Feb 18, 2004 11:12 am 
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scottjohnson wrote:
Ironically, I think that the 1.8 liter ruling is crap, the 2nd gen NA MR2 fits the spirit of ST2 nicely.


First thing, the class was championed by Miata drivers. Thus the 1.8L rule to exclude the MR2. I have no problem with that. They did the leg work. They get to set the intitial rules.

The MR2 would not be competitive in ST2:
1) We would need to find 300 lbs to drop to get close to the power to weight ratio of the Miata. That is not going to happen. The MR2 is a pig in Ferrari clothing.

2) A cold air intake does nothing for the MR2. We are really limited by the head design. It was designed for a Camary, not a sports car. The Miata does benefit from the cold air take.

3) Most importantly, no limited slip is available for the MR2. We induce wheel spin with R-compound tires and huge front bars that break the front suspension pieces. The 94-97 Miata has a decent limited-slip.


But the Miata people are terrified of the MR2 ... it isn't the car, its the drivers :lol:

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Feb 18, 2004 12:22 pm 
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jimpastorius wrote:
Funny thing, right now the 94-97 Miata is not legal in ST2 :) The displacement is 1839 CC, a little over the 1.8 rule.
But it's exemplified in the rule itself. I think that somebody made a mistake.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Feb 18, 2004 1:30 pm 
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scottjohnson wrote:
A first gen MR2 is pretty compelling too, I'm not sure if the supercharged (1.6 liter) version is legal or not, but it would kick some Honda tail!

Scott


Since ST2 is inheriting the ST rules, you inherit "normally aspirated".

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Feb 18, 2004 4:00 pm 
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Ok, so as one of those CRX drivers who is eligible for this:

:cheer: :cheer: :cheer: :cheer:

(That's my vote for "Please recognize this class!", you WILL have at least 1 car and 2 drivers if you do).

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Feb 18, 2004 4:13 pm 
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jimpastorius wrote:
scottjohnson wrote:
A first gen MR2 is pretty compelling too, I'm not sure if the supercharged (1.6 liter) version is legal or not, but it would kick some Honda tail!

Scott


Since ST2 is inheriting the ST rules, you inherit "normally aspirated".


ST is not 100% normally aspirated. Some small displacement turbo models are allowed (such as 1.8 Turbo VWs). I don't know how they determine this. If it is a turbo multiplier or if it is done case by case.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Feb 18, 2004 4:19 pm 
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I do not have my new rule book at the office, but any forced induction cars are listed as being included on a car by car basis. There is no specific listing to include any forced induction cars in STS2.

I did error...hard to believe....but the only LSD's permitted are of the viscous type. So the 94-97 Miatas will be limited to only open diffs.

I think this is a cool class and hope that THSCC adopts it. But the competitors have to stay on top of the rules since it is a supplemental class and will be very fluid in rules for a while.

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 Post subject: STU - Hell yea!
PostPosted: Wed Feb 18, 2004 5:01 pm 
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I'd definitely like to see an STU class, assuming the PAX Index is reasonable.

Any chance of getting a decision on this within the next couple weeks (w/enough time to get tires before our first event)?

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Feb 18, 2004 7:44 pm 
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There has been some discussion between officers and we decided that our policy it to support the classes the SCCA supports, so it looks like we will have 2 new classes for the time being. Once PAX figures are released I will post them. In the event that no PAX figures are available, we will make them up as we see fit (1.100 seems like a good multiplier for Keith).

Remember these are supplemental classes so if the SCCA cans them, then we can them. No final decision will be made before 2007.

Scott


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