THSCC Forums

Richard Casto, you're a genius. That's exactly how I think we should do it. Everyone goes in their appropriate open class, PAX competitions would be "results only" (no trophies) for NOV, TIR, and maybe PRO.

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Mike Whitney
whit32@gmail.com, 919-454-5445
V10, V8, V8t, I6, I6, V6, F4t, I4, I4, I4, I4, I2, 1, 1

I guess to play devils advocate on this...

During the winter when we were all bored and got into the entertaining debate about cheater tires and the demise of stock class etc... A number of us volunteered to jump over to stock class, regardless of whether we had R compounds or not. It seems to me that the ST## classes are popular and growing even more. From my understanding this class allows any street tire. So there is no whinning about which street tire you run. You can make some mods, but less than P or M groups. So all this lets a Miata owner, for example, go from ES/CS to another class without ending up in ESP/CSP?? And no R compound overhead.

So if we are going to have so many of these ST## classes custom tailored to the most popular cars then why do we even bother with TIR class at all? And how does this not further the demise of stock classes?

Graham

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http://www.greywinds.com

I believe the talk was the demise of open classes and the resulting lack of competition in THSCC. The four ST classes are Open classes.

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Jim Pastorius
2008 Silverado VortecMax
1992 Camaro CMC#92
2002 BMW R1150R

2009 3rd Place CMC Mid-Atlantic Championship
2009 CMC Hyperfest Winner

I probably wasn't very clear on the more/less trophy thing.

What I am talking about with my proposal was if we should give out trophies for the indexed classes or not. I had proposed having three... Regular/Open, Tire and Novice. We already give trophies for Tire and Novice. But if we put everyone in their respective open classes, this would cause an increase in overall trophies (due to larger number of people in the open class). Also, if you were automatically in both an open class and TIR class (i.e. running DSP using Azenis), you could win trophies in both your open class an in the indexed TIR class (again, more trophies).

Personally, I don't care one way or the other about trophies for the indexed classes. But I know those that currently run TIR probably do. So that was just an olive branch on my part. I would much rather win a trophy in open class and then just look at the indexed results as a guage on how I stack up on that particular day overall.

Regarding less trophies in general, we have had some online discussions regarding racing for money, free event fees, etc. I personally like having the wood plaques. I just wish I had earned more than I currently have.

Hope this makes more sense.

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Richard Casto
1972 Porsche 914
2013 Honda Fit Sport
2015 Honda Fit EX
http://motorsport.zyyz.com
Money can't buy happiness, but somehow it's more comfortable to cry in a Porsche than a Kia.

Now if I can just convince my wife.

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Richard Casto
1972 Porsche 914
2013 Honda Fit Sport
2015 Honda Fit EX
http://motorsport.zyyz.com
Money can't buy happiness, but somehow it's more comfortable to cry in a Porsche than a Kia.

I think this is all just the start of the road toward STA, STB, STC, etc. The eventual creation of a class between Stock and SP. Or maybe SP "lite" + a few goodies. In my opinon this can either be thought of "what Stock should be" with respects to tires or "what SP should be" with respects to real "Street" types of mods.

I think the genie is out of the bottle with "R" tires. They are not going to go away with Stock class. So the answer is to create a new class structure!

Ultimatly if this does happen then there wouldn't need to be much of a reason for TIR class unless the "exclusion" list of SCCA street tires is not used like it should. You still have the issue that there is not a huge selection of street tires that are competative. While Azenis are cheap today, who knows when someone will come out with a new tire that is faster than Azenis, but costs and cycles out as quick as "R" tires (see exclusion comment above). If that happens (i.e. SCCA does not keep street tire classes cheap) then grassroots TIR classes will pop up all over again.

Just an opinion. I don't have much of a dog in this fight.

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Richard Casto
1972 Porsche 914
2013 Honda Fit Sport
2015 Honda Fit EX
http://motorsport.zyyz.com
Money can't buy happiness, but somehow it's more comfortable to cry in a Porsche than a Kia.

Here's one for you that will make you think that ST is a real extension of SP: The new Hankook Z212 that is supposed to be the new 'Tire to have' in ST classes is reported going to come out in a 225/50/13. If it happens, you can bet I will be on 13x7.5 wheels very soon. - AB

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'14 Toyota Sequoia Platinum 4WD
Super Westerfield Bros - '93 Integra - LeChump Du Jour
STX 93 - Scion FR-S

And those will clear your front brakes how?

And its not like you can swap smaller brakes now that the backdate/update rules are gone form STS

Rod McGeorge's Spyder has the same brakes as my Celica... They're running a 13x8 with a 5" backspace. With a tire that small, there is no need to worry about hitting the fenders. - AB

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'14 Toyota Sequoia Platinum 4WD
Super Westerfield Bros - '93 Integra - LeChump Du Jour
STX 93 - Scion FR-S

Can a one seat 1.6 liter car run in STS2? I've already got 13 inch diameter wheels. The rest of the car, including engine, fits the preparation rules (stock compression, cam, etc.) the only only suspension mods are different springs and shocks (only two adjustments) than "as delivered". Gearing had lots of options "stock". No limited slip differential.

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Dick Rasmussen

FS 50 2018 Mustang GT

I think your 1.6L car is in the same boat as my 1.8L car! However, if you figure out how to do it, let me know!

Oh come on guys... you KNOW that all you really have to be is "close" to the rules... and truly believe the differences aren't performance enhancing.

I'll start. I wouldn't protest Dick or Phil running in STS2. I'm sure everyone else will agree.

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Diane (Hall) Bundas
1992 Spec Miata #48 - 1997 Chevy Tahoe - 2007 Honda Civic Coupe

Power-assisted with 10.8" ventilated front disc/10.6" solid rear disc celica GT-S
Front : 10.0-inch vented discs/10.3"solid rear discs spyder

Quoted from toyota direct. I know of no 13" rim that will fit over 10.8" discs, backspace or not.