⚠ Forum Archived — The THSCC forums were discontinued (last post: 2024-05-18). This read-only archive preserves club history. Visit thscc.com →  |  Search this archive with Google: site:forums.thscc.com your search terms

THSCC Forums

Tarheel Sports Car Club Forums
It is currently Tue Apr 07, 2026 10:10 am

All times are UTC - 5 hours [ DST ]




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 40 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3
Author Message
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Mar 04, 2009 1:29 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Wed Feb 09, 2005 11:23 pm
Posts: 1331
Location: Probably somewhere near an autocross.
Keeping this thread alive, another strategy I’d like to address is positive thinking. While few of us will ever be national champions, I believe we can at least strive to be a bigger fish in the smaller pond. So often while walking the course I’ll pass someone who’s saying something like “I can’t do this, this course is crazy” or “Oh, God, I hate when they put (fill in blank) this element in a course” or” I hate slaloms, I wish for once they’d leave them out of a course”. When I hear any of those, I make a mental note to check their times. I think to myself, I’ll beat them today, because they’re beating themselves right now, before they run. Usually, I’ve been right. (And, I’m by no means, the quickest puppy in the pack.) As a sidebar to this, if there’s an element that you particularly dislike, it’s probably the one you need to work on the most. Just a thought.

How often do you hear (or have you said), I hated that course? Stop that. Figure out a way to like them all. It’s easy to like a course that fits your driving style. It’s more difficult to like a course because it presents a challenge to you and/or your car. If you find a way to like the course, you’ll be faster.

This is not rocket science. This is simply a matter of not being “hung by the tongue”. Your brain doesn’t want your mouth to be a liar. So, it’s going to react in some fashion to what you say. This year practice approaching each course with a positive attitude. I’m 100% sure you’ll be faster. I’m sensing a theme. Good luck! :wink:

_________________
SCCA Solo Triad Award Recipient 2014
SCCA HSL National Champion 2012
SCCA DSL National Champion 2013
SCCA DSL National Champion 2014
NCR National Driver of the Year 2012
THSCC Heel of the Year 2011
Former Club Secretary
http://www.petscompanioninn.com


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Mar 04, 2009 3:00 pm 
Offline
Just call me Bo

Joined: Thu Aug 28, 2003 6:39 pm
Posts: 1431
Location: SYPHAJFD
Whew, lots of interesting thoughts in here. I think the most important thing is to be willing to experiment with different techniques and find what works for you as an individual. They key to that is the ability to recognize when something in particular is helping you which isn't always easy.

Anything you can do to increase your self-awareness will only make you faster including instruction/coaching, memorization exercises, video, data acquisition, etc. I don't buy into the idea that somebody isn't ready to use a particular technique because people respond so differently to things. Don't let anybody tell you that something isn't worthwhile just because it didn't work for them. There are no absolutes.

I found a few things that work for me but I don't necessarily do them at every event. I like to change things up and while I may mess myself up at times, I always like to use the opportunity to learn something. I do tend to fall back on the familiar habits at bigger events although I've certainly shot myself in foot plenty of times on those occasions as well.

In general, I don't memorize courses. It's too much information for my pea-sized brain. I like to pick a few key spots and focus on those during my runs. I find the biggest help for me is to pick my "gas spots". Every section usually has a spot that you can get back on gas hard and I try to make sure I'm doing that during my run. It more or less auto-defines my braking points and as long as I don't over shoot my gas spot, I'm happy.

I tend to think picking your braking spots before a run locks you into making the same mistakes over and over if things don't work out the first time. I think it is extremely hard to judge precise speeds through a course during a walk so why would I even try to pick an accurate braking spot? Where do I brake? Where ever it allows me to get back on the gas when I want to. On a fast run, this usually involves scaring myself a few times. :)

About the only other thing I worry about for a section is my angle of attack. I think most people generally pick and drive a good line for most courses but the most common mistake I see is an awkward approach angle to various sections. You can stay on line even with an awkward approach angle but it kills your momentum.

Have you ever made what you thought was a great run only to be slower than one of your previous "sloppier" runs? Most of the time that's happened to me I later found out that my angle of attack was killing me. It's kind of a hard thing to describe with words but feel free to join me on a course walk and I'll try to explain what I'm talking about. This is one of the areas where video is invaluable.

The main issue I fight with is actually pumping myself up for a run. I guess it's the polar opposite of being nervous but I find I have to nearly yell at myself early in a run to be aggressive. I actually like chatting with the starter or anybody else who might be close by because it helps keep my mind active. I always find my best runs come when I'm slightly agitated or even slightly aggravated.

Bottom line: find what work for you and don't worry about the other junk.

Jim


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Mar 04, 2009 4:54 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon Mar 14, 2005 3:25 pm
Posts: 770
Location: Greenville, NC
All this is hurting my brain. This is why I like NASCAR. Drive fast and turn left! :wink:

_________________
Rubbin' is Racin'


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Mar 04, 2009 5:10 pm 
Offline
Retired Admin
User avatar

Joined: Tue Aug 19, 2003 1:34 pm
Posts: 3276
Location: Durham, NC
JamesFeinberg wrote:
I always find my best runs come when I'm slightly agitated or even slightly aggravated.


Note to starter....

Jim wants you to insult him just before you say "go". :wink:

_________________
Richard Casto
1972 Porsche 914
2013 Honda Fit Sport
2015 Honda Fit EX
http://motorsport.zyyz.com
Money can't buy happiness, but somehow it's more comfortable to cry in a Porsche than a Kia.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Mar 04, 2009 6:32 pm 
Offline
Just call me Bo

Joined: Thu Aug 28, 2003 6:39 pm
Posts: 1431
Location: SYPHAJFD
Richard Casto wrote:
JamesFeinberg wrote:
I always find my best runs come when I'm slightly agitated or even slightly aggravated.


Note to starter....

Jim wants you to insult him just before you say "go". :wink:


Don't make me angry, you wouldn't like me when I'm angry. :P

Jim


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Mar 04, 2009 10:28 pm 
Offline
I got a SUX2000!
User avatar

Joined: Sun Aug 31, 2003 12:07 am
Posts: 2443
Location: In the garage, under a big old Mercedes
JamesFeinberg wrote:
Have you ever made what you thought was a great run only to be slower than one of your previous "sloppier" runs? Most of the time that's happened to me I later found out that my angle of attack was killing me. It's kind of a hard thing to describe with words but feel free to join me on a course walk and I'll try to explain what I'm talking about. This is one of the areas where video is invaluable.


This situation - getting finished with a run that felt like it was money, only to find out that it was slow - is among the most frustrating things in my autocrossing. It really feeds my tendency to beat myself up..."Well, it felt great from the car, but it was slow, so I guess I don't actually know anything." I've said these very words to myself. :oops:

I walked with Jonathan a couple times in 2008. He seems to focus on finding the three or four "most important cones" on a course. Which was valuable information I suppose, but mostly I came away thinking, "Why is that one more important than this other one?" His answers always seemed well reasoned, but I'm not yet capable of finding "the most important cones."

Jim, I'd love to walk a course with you sometime this year. And in fair trade, I'll bring some rubber gloves to wave around, suggesting they might be your next trophy. That, uh, seemed to get you "agitated" enough at the finale last year ;) (J/K)

_________________
Karl S.
2014 Baby, 2014 House, 2013 Ford Focus ST, 2013 BMW 328i, 1994 Mercedes E320
(Insert passive aggressive signature line here)


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Mar 04, 2009 11:03 pm 
Offline
You're just jealous

Joined: Thu Aug 28, 2003 6:14 pm
Posts: 2553
Location: Raleigh, NC
In regard to Jim's "angle of attack" comment, it is very easy on some courses to straighten the entry to corners where you really need to be "wide" in order to have a better line through the next segment. L'burg courses seem prone to this as I recall. Of course, don't get too carried away on going wide due to the possibility of grit/marbles. If the "right line" is in the marbles, it is the "wrong line" (been there, done that, got the SPIN). The "popular line" on gritty courses may become the "right line" by default. :(

Regarding Jim's comment on braking points. Agree! My wife was always frustrated that I could not tell her where to brake during course walk throughs. Simple: I had no clue other than it is obvious in a fast car that slowing will be necessary at some point when a slow corner follows a straight :D Keep in mind that if you get a better launch onto a straight the braking point you used last time is automatically latter simply because you are faster when you get to it. :lol: At some events if you run late in the event the start of the braking skid marks can tell you where "too late" starts . . . at the 1986 Nationals, my Lotus braking point for one corner was where the BIG BLACK skid marks started that had been put there by the Corvettes with ABS. (Lotus ABS was max brake pressure on Hoosier Autocrossers . . . equalled no lockup)

Regarding not being able to understand why a "fast feeling run was slower" (other than obvious mistakes), data acquisition and segment times is the way to find out. Assuming the car/course/tires were not slower, the driver obviously simply went slower in one or more places. Sometimes it is simply that you did the previous run REALLY well compared to normal and simply go a little conservative in some spots so that you can go faster in others. At the end of a long day, the edge may be gone. On thread the needle courses, you may simply give a little more distance to some key cones.

The most important corners typically are ones which impact how soon you go to full throttle for long straights, ones where a LOT of time can be wasted such as slow 180's, and ones where if you don't enter with the correct line (typically late apex to the first part of a slalom/chicane/lane change) you are slow for the whole segment. My moto is, when in doubt, late apex. Followed by something attributed to John Ames: "late apex as early as possible".

Regarding 180's, especially slow airport type: DO NOT drive past the pivot cone any more than absolutely necessary to have a good exit line. This is the slowest part of a course. Every foot of extra distance costs the most time. Going away from the finish line costs time. Going parallel to the finish line direction costs time. A wide line is necessary many times obviously but in tight pivots be really careful about adding distance. Entering a little below the limit so that you don't add distance and get back to full throttle sooner is better than going past the cone a couple of feet extra and struggling to get the car pointed in the right direction. FYI, it took me a LOOOONG time to learn this since tight pivots didn't exist where I learned to autox.

Regarding looking ahead. I got lucky. I've been looking ahead since before "looking ahead" was even invented. I was driving fast on back roads and trying to avoid slow traffic long before my first autocross. Then I did some rallying at night when starting to autocross. Looking ahead is key to all of these activities. Do you drive in traffic looking at the pavement just in front of you or are you always looking far ahead and just staying aware of what is happening up close? One reason I HATE following a truck, SUV, or even a car that I can't see through the windows is because I cannot see ahead.

Dick

_________________
Dick Rasmussen

FS 50 2018 Mustang GT


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Mar 30, 2009 10:03 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Wed Jul 23, 2008 11:15 am
Posts: 195
Location: Chapel Hill, NC
Chuck Branscomb wrote:
Isn't it amazing how even with TONS of experience, it seems we all fall prey to getting caught not using vision properly at times? Some of the most fun I had last year was playing with vision after thoroughly enjoying having Tim Aro ride with me at the extreme school and just calling my vision.

I used that tool for some of the drivers I instructed at the intermediate school -- just calling vision and no other comments. Jackie really enjoyed that type of ride-a-long too where I would be silent and only call her vision points for her.


Can you describe more about what you mean by this? Is it simply directional (reminder to look left toward your next element or two, for example), or something more specific? At chick school, Gwen told me to "look for the gap", which helped me look ahead more (easier said than done, of course).


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Mar 30, 2009 10:39 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Wed Feb 09, 2005 11:23 pm
Posts: 1331
Location: Probably somewhere near an autocross.
Maria Winslow wrote:
Chuck Branscomb wrote:
Isn't it amazing how even with TONS of experience, it seems we all fall prey to getting caught not using vision properly at times? Some of the most fun I had last year was playing with vision after thoroughly enjoying having Tim Aro ride with me at the extreme school and just calling my vision.

I used that tool for some of the drivers I instructed at the intermediate school -- just calling vision and no other comments. Jackie really enjoyed that type of ride-a-long too where I would be silent and only call her vision points for her.


Can you describe more about what you mean by this? Is it simply directional (reminder to look left toward your next element or two, for example), or something more specific? At chick school, Gwen told me to "look for the gap", which helped me look ahead more (easier said than done, of course).


To clarify “finding the gap” or “opening”, I was referring more to the specific situation where you are approaching an element such as a lane change where, when you approach, the element opens up so that the line, or path, becomes evident. For me, this also helps when approaching a slalom, usually just past the point where the cones just look like a continuous straight line from the front side. I try to do this when walking the course so that it is somewhat set in my mind ahead of time.

Hope that helps.

Gwennie

_________________
SCCA Solo Triad Award Recipient 2014
SCCA HSL National Champion 2012
SCCA DSL National Champion 2013
SCCA DSL National Champion 2014
NCR National Driver of the Year 2012
THSCC Heel of the Year 2011
Former Club Secretary
http://www.petscompanioninn.com


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Mar 30, 2009 12:59 pm 
Offline
Tire Nerd
User avatar

Joined: Sun Nov 07, 2004 1:40 pm
Posts: 1818
Location: Greenville, SC
Maria Winslow wrote:
Chuck Branscomb wrote:
Isn't it amazing how even with TONS of experience, it seems we all fall prey to getting caught not using vision properly at times? Some of the most fun I had last year was playing with vision after thoroughly enjoying having Tim Aro ride with me at the extreme school and just calling my vision.

I used that tool for some of the drivers I instructed at the intermediate school -- just calling vision and no other comments. Jackie really enjoyed that type of ride-a-long too where I would be silent and only call her vision points for her.


Can you describe more about what you mean by this? Is it simply directional (reminder to look left toward your next element or two, for example), or something more specific? At chick school, Gwen told me to "look for the gap", which helped me look ahead more (easier said than done, of course).


I was referring to how having a very experienced person riding with you, who has a great feel for the car and course, can help you keep your vision points constantly changing as you progress through the course. However, it's not just the "vision" per se that I'm referring to here. When you give look ahead at the proper place and time (should say scan ahead as opposed to "static" looking ahead which won't work), you give your brain a part of the input it needs to calculate/process a HUGE quantity of information.

For example, say you're in a large turn-around sweeper like Danville often has, and as you are approaching the turn in point under heavy braking, you scan ahead noting the constraint gate at the exit of the sweeper, the next gate down course and the path through that portion of the course perhaps all the way through to the entry to a slalom further on. As each increment of progress through that sweeper is made, your scanning ahead is giving you the input you need to know if you're on track with *your* inputs to the chassis to achieve your desired outcome. You might sense you are going to just run wide of where you need to be at the exit, so you gently lift the throttle a bit, or visa-versa.

As you set these constraints in your mind for each course, you measure your performance with respect to them as you progress through the course like that. You develop a feel for how quickly to let go of a current scan ahead location and move on to the next -- that feel is not fixed by the course but instead significantly varying perhaps depending on the car/speed. It even varies on each run in the same car depending on how you have balanced and where you have placed the car on this particular run through that section.

When you have your vision "right" in it's attack of a course, you create access to a synesthesia of your past skills and abilities to meld together to form the best possible outcome. For me anyway, that vision is *the* key to accessing what stored knowledge/abilities I have and real-time adapt them to the current situation.

I have no idea if I answered your question. :lol: :?

_________________
Current stable:
2019 BMW M2 Competition slicktop 6MT
2011 BMW M3 sedan slicktop 6MT
2007 BMW 328i wagon (slushbox for now)
1975 CanAm 125MX2


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 40 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3

All times are UTC - 5 hours [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group