Let's talk strategy.

Karl Shultz · **Posted:** Fri Feb 27, 2009 1:42 am

The course walking thing is definitely an issue for me. And I'm not sure what the fix is.

At Nationals, Eric, Chris and Jon were all in disbelief when I told them that I had never - not once - had a course memorized before taking my first run. They were further appalled to learn that usually, before my first run, I watch the cars leaving in front of me, to make sure I know where the first few corners go.

:oops:

I'm not sure I'm capable of memorizing a course on 1-3 walks. And walking it 12 times, like I did at Nationals for day one, seemed to bring other problems. I knew where the thing went, I just hadn't put much (any) thought into how to drive it.

Walking "well" is definitely something I'll be working on this year.

MarcusMcRae · **Posted:** Fri Feb 27, 2009 8:30 am

Karl Shultz wrote:

Walking "well" is definitely something I'll be working on this year.

Course walking is over rated. I often don't get one in and usually don't get my fastest run in until my last one(after I finally learn the course :oops:

).

Kevin Allen · **Joined:** Thu Aug 28, 2003 6:42 pm **Posts:** 3479

And sometimes you get beat raw time by a slow Subaru on street tires.

Gwen Habenicht · **Posted:** Fri Feb 27, 2009 10:04 am

You guys are way faster than I, but in the hopes that something can be learned from anyone, here goes. I walk the course countless times and draw every course I’ve ever run. After an initial walk to “see” the course, I walk and draw it. Somewhere by the 2nd or 3rd walk, as I stand where I want to be in a particular element, I walk or look backwards to see where I must be in the approach to achieve the result. I sometimes stop and run the course in my mind up to the point where I’m standing. By the later walks I actually “hold the steering wheel” and drive the course, making the turns, reminding myself to make small inputs, early turns, braking points, etc. For me, the course walk is a very important part of the strategy, so I won’t do a serious walk while talking with friends.

Karl, I don’t think memorizing the course is necessary. Just knowing the key points and what you need to do there is the thing. That being said, memory of the entire course is generally a by product.

I’m still about 1 ½-2 seconds off my desired result overall for a 60 second course, but I’m working on it. My standards set by the Fishers.

A short, funny story-a couple of years ago at another club’s event, I had a guy pass me at a course walk and mumble something to the effect that only a idiot would have to draw a course. After I won my class I went looking for him, having decided to show him that even idiots can win wood. He had left at the lunch break. Something about 2 dnf’s and it was a dumb sport anyway. Last weekend in Wilmington a young man told me I was cheating by drawing the course. After his first 2 runs, both dnf’s, I asked him (very nicely) if he was having trouble with the course and would he like for me to find someone to ride with him. (I was working at the time.) He finally got it.

Bernie says my biggest problem is over thinking. Maybe others suffer from that as well.

MarcusMcRae · **Posted:** Fri Feb 27, 2009 10:16 am

Kevin Allen wrote:

And sometimes you get beat raw time by a slow Subaru on street tires.

This is true, but you only beat me once last year when it was raining. :nana:

Aaron Buckley · **Posted:** Fri Feb 27, 2009 10:43 am

For those that trouble memorizing the course, what Gwen brought up is a method I'm sure Eric, Jim, Donnie and I all use. Psychologically speaking, it's called "chunking". You memorize the 1st small section of the course first, then the 2nd, 3rd and so on, and then tie them all together. In 2 course walks at a National size course, I can memorize the course.

Another thing that Gwen brought up is that walking is not social hour, which is difficult for me. You should walk to learn, not walk to chat.

I personally feel that drawing a map, while it seems like a help, becomes a crutch, for I feel that people won't work on really memorizing the course if they have that backup plan of the map.

At local events, I now like to walk the course once just to get an idead of the flow and try to "look ahead" to drive it, but at any event that means anything, I memorize the course in my head. If you can't do that, you will need to figure out something that works, for you'll be at a huge disadvantage to those that do. - AB

Gwen Habenicht · **Posted:** Fri Feb 27, 2009 12:12 pm

Aaron Buckley wrote:

Psychologically speaking, it's called "chunking".

That’s so cool, that there’s a name for how I learn the course.
There’s another thing that I’ve observed. I know, after 5 years that I’m not a natural talent. Whatever I do have comes from reading, thinking, studying, listening to others, etc. The really fast drivers respond intuitively, not by decision. (We know that movement by instinct is quicker than movement by decision.) Many can’t even tell you exactly what they did in a particular element, because they didn’t really think about it. They responded to the situation. I think that’s where looking ahead matters when you’re driving, and running a course over and over in your mind when you’re not, comes into play. The more repetition you have of an event, the more intuitive you will be.

just another $.02 worth.

Aaron Buckley · **Posted:** Fri Feb 27, 2009 12:36 pm

Gwen Baake wrote:

I know, after 5 years that I’m not a natural talent. Whatever I do have comes from reading, thinking, studying, listening to others, etc.

I'm in the same boat. It took me 5 years of doing the National stuff to win one. I came close, but really had to work for it. All the stuff that I "trained" myself to do has become second nature, but it never was before. I guess some hard work and a lot of money has finally paid off!

Now that I have a 5th and 4th place trophies from '06 and '07 respectively (I skipped '08 to get married), I figure by 2011 I can win a National Championship with that progression

At this point for me, that's the goal, but realistically, I was thrilled to win my first class championship at THSCC and it's still proudly hanging with my SCCA trophies

- AB

HershTapadia · **Posted:** Fri Feb 27, 2009 6:25 pm

Aaron Buckley wrote:

Gwen Baake wrote:

I know, after 5 years that I’m not a natural talent. Whatever I do have comes from reading, thinking, studying, listening to others, etc.

I'm in the same boat. It took me 5 years of doing the National stuff to win one. I came close, but really had to work for it. All the stuff that I "trained" myself to do has become second nature, but it never was before. I guess some hard work and a lot of money has finally paid off!

Now that I have a 5th and 4th place trophies from '06 and '07 respectively (I skipped '08 to get married), I figure by 2011 I can win a National Championship with that progression

At this point for me, that's the goal, but realistically, I was thrilled to win my first class championship at THSCC and it's still proudly hanging with my SCCA trophies

- AB

Shoot I was thrilled to win one THSCC event period. It is hanging out in my bedroom

I dunno if I have much talent but I do notice that I tend to learn the course better after one or two walks and the first run. If I walk more than twice I think it just leads to diminishing returns and I start to argue with myself.

Matt McGrain · **Posted:** Fri Feb 27, 2009 8:33 pm

Really the only think that I may say I do differently than most is just try to break the elements/sections down to two categories as I walk them the first time: (A) a parts of the course that will be easy to read at speed and don't really have to focus on and (B) parts that defy the logic and break the 'flow' of the prior section

(A) I guess an extreme example would be a straightforward 4-6 cone slalom in a sweeper that is easy to set up for (i.e. the end of the shuttleway at Sanford turning left heading to the main runway.

(B) An example of a section that I would have to put emphasis remembering during the first walk and not to forget in terms of turn-in position and braking zone, would be a group of, say, 4-5 offsets or lane changes, and then out of the blue, the last offset is four times the distance across the runway requiring early braking and car position.

Basically, I like to walk the course and pick out the sections that I think I would definitely 'get behind on' or have to thread the needle through risking the chance of nudging a cone to prevent lifting (in the ITR at least).

I've only comfortably remembered two small courses ever and one of which was the last Greenville event. So, that being said, my philosophy is to focus primarily on the section that I'm most likely to cone, loose time, or even dnf through based on my driving style.

-M

Wes Eargle · **Joined:** Mon Oct 27, 2003 9:47 am **Posts:** 3683

My strategy is:

1st walk, find people, walk the course to determine the flow. This will keep you from getting lost.

2nd walk, walk it again, pace the slaloms, learn it. Break up conversations to walk back 20 yards and rethink strategy.

3rd walk, solo. If you can't "Stevie Wonder" after the end of that, repeat it.

4th (or so, depending on the results of walk 3) walk, fast paced, know where you are, where you want the car to be, understand key cones, big focus here.

Stevie Wonder after the end of that walk, and you should recognize everything as it comes up. If you can do that well, your first run should appear to be your third or fourth in your mind's eye.

DickRasmussen · **Posted:** Fri Feb 27, 2009 11:20 pm

Never could estimate run time. Never saw any reason to do so (but that may be because there is no value in something you can't do, right

) Have a really tough time memorizing courses until AFTER my runs.

For me the most important thing is being able to see where the course goes "next" looong before "decision time" for turning, accelerating, slowing. This is tough in a low fast car at sites like L'burg with very confusing visual elements from a low car.

Once I know where the course goes, everything else is based on feel/experience/intuition, etc. Each run is as fast as I think is possible based on what the car is telling me unless there is doubt about where the course goes. With tires that like heat I generally assuming each run will have more grip plus I've learned where the car didn't feel "on the limit" for the situation. Between learning curve and more grip each run "should" be faster.

Since I'm a conservative driver I don't "bonsai" unless I'm convinced that I've been underestimating the car's limits. Probably due to so many events where each run had to count. (Where I started we got ONE run per event . . . which later progressed to TWO).

I pace slaloms, etc. just as a way of guestimating which gear will be needed.

My driving style is heavily based on what the rear tires are telling me in regard to grip. Understeer is always a driving mistake for me (once the car is setup "properly") since I'm responsible for knowing what the fronts can handle and driving a line which prevents understeer. My typical approach when trying to go faster than previously is to focus on more gas sooner. However, with long tight corner understeer, I may focus on entering the corner fast enough to get gentle corner entry oversteer at the slowest point of the entry so that the car rotates a bit to prevent push at the exit.

This driving by "feel" is probably a big part of why I HATE sites where the grip keeps changing from corner to corner. L'burg and Sanford are really bad for me . . . plus the rocks, chunks, sharp gravel, etc. are really hard on the car and tires.

Arthur McDonald · **Joined:** Fri Aug 29, 2003 1:54 am **Posts:** 2052

DickRasmussen wrote:

Since I'm a conservative driver I don't "bonsai" unless I'm convinced that I've been underestimating the car's limits.

I agree completely. If you're too aggressive and your car spins out while you're pruning your bonsai tree, you might accidentally cut off an entire branch.

Keith Quistorff · **Posted:** Tue Mar 03, 2009 4:50 pm

Karl Shultz wrote:

I had never - not once - had a course memorized before taking my first run.

I have the same problem. For some reason, my brain seems incapable of memorizing an autocross course. I'm always amazed at the guys who stand there, swaying back and forth with their eyes closed, driving the entire course in their head.

I typically get ~4 walks in, more if I have time. I concentrate pretty hard during the walks and try to figure out where the most important features and appropriate line are in hopes I'll at least remember those when the time comes, but that's about the best I can hope for. My best shot at getting it reasonably right at speed is to look ahead as much as possible. I usually forget to do that, also, as I tend to fixate on the next element and not look far enough ahead.

Well, I guess I know my main goal for '09. Thanks, Karl!

Chuck Branscomb · **Posted:** Tue Mar 03, 2009 9:49 pm

Keith Quistorff wrote:

My best shot at getting it reasonably right at speed is to look ahead as much as possible. I usually forget to do that, also, as I tend to fixate on the next element and not look far enough ahead.

Keith,

Isn't it amazing how even with TONS of experience, it seems we all fall prey to getting caught not using vision properly at times? Some of the most fun I had last year was playing with vision after thoroughly enjoying having Tim Aro ride with me at the extreme school and just calling my vision.

I used that tool for some of the drivers I instructed at the intermediate school -- just calling vision and no other comments. Jackie really enjoyed that type of ride-a-long too where I would be silent and only call her vision points for her.

I have to consciously remember to create and internally call my own vision through a course, but it sure is fun to have someone do it for you.

Jackie would do that for me when riding along, and I would be amazed at the times she would catch me forgetting to keep my vision where it should be. I guess if I autocrossed more than a handful of times a year my memory might work better. Then again, at 50 (!) things just don't work as good as they used to.

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