Which class?

Michael Hankewycz · **Posted:** Sat Mar 01, 2008 6:41 pm

HershTapadia wrote:

Michael Hankewycz wrote:

Thank you everyone for the experienced feedback, but Chris hit the nail right on the head.

This A4 is my daily driver and these modifications are not oriented directly towards Autocross only. Considering the car has a curb weight of approximately 3.4 tons and 130 awhp (thanks to quattro drive train loss) according to dyno tests, the car feels rather slow on a daily basis. Passing a soccer mom in a van can be a daunting task at times. The cheapest and best bang for the buck performance upgrade is a simple ECU tune so I felt that was the best way to get a bump in engine performance without killing my fuel economy or wallet. Unfortunately these modifications will place me in a very competitive class.

On the course, the lack of horsepower and front end bias can be felt at every cone. People can say that the car has more in it, yet I see absolutely no one driving in a car like the A4 - so much weight, front end bias, lack of power, and even more lack of power due to awd (adding to the front end bias once again). I feel these first modifications will be the best initial upgrades to start with considering the weak points of the car. The ECU tune will provide additional power and torque at lower rpms thus helping with staying in boost range on the course while the very thick rear sway bar will help with stiffening the rear of the car and help make the car more neutral.
Once again, I sincerely appreciate everyone's helpful comments and welcome anyone and everyone to help me improve my times with this car in mind. In complete honesty, I would like to see some experienced drivers drive the car to see if they feel the same way as I do – perhaps at the Novice School?

mm not to bust your chops or anything but 3.4 tons is 6800 pounds...

Big mistake on my part, I meant to say 3400 pounds. :roll:

Matt McGrain · **Posted:** Sat Mar 01, 2008 8:26 pm

Michael,

I can understand your desire to mod out the A4. Those turbo Audi's and Gti's can get quick for reasonable cash compared to many of the popular n/a imports. You may get the bug to get your car back to stock to be more competitive, but it's all about how commited you become to auto-x so take it one step at a time. You can't put a price on having a fun daily driver with power on demand though.

I'd be happy to drive the A4 during a fun run if you'd like to ride along. My car is the white Type R (#78 ), so just give me a shout at the next event if we have time for fun runs.

-Matt

JamesFeinberg · **Posted:** Sat Mar 01, 2008 8:48 pm

Normally I'd agree with the others and say leave the car alone but having driven a few A4's in various trim levels, I'd be inclined to do similar mods to make the car more enjoyable no matter what class I wound up in. The difference between a stock A4 1.8T and a chipped one is simply astounding. It feels like it should have come from the factory like that but I have a feeling Audi wanted people to buy the more expensive V6 if they are looking for more power.

The stock suspension on the A4's could definitely use some help as well and it will allow the car to turn decently out on course. The stock suspension is so biased towards understeer that it really can drive you crazy and sour the overall experience. If it was a well balanced car in the first place, I'd definitely recommend leaving it be but that just isn't the case here.

It's a hard call but given the car in question, I'd say go for it. I think you'll have a blast and the car is probably going to be easier to learn without plowing around all over the course.

Jim

Carl Fisher · **Posted:** Sat Mar 01, 2008 9:20 pm

Michael Hankewycz wrote:

The cheapest and best bang for the buck performance upgrade is a simple ECU tune so I felt that was the best way to get a bump in engine performance without killing my fuel economy or wallet. Unfortunately these modifications will place me in a very competitive class.

Try asking yourself this question: "Will I enjoy autocross more if I have a chance of winning a trophy, or do I absolutely not care if I even get close to trophy position?" If you can honestly answer that you don't care, then go for Street Mod. To the vast majority of new drivers, though, winning an occasional trophy, or at least being in the hunt for one, is the validation they need to stick with the sport while they're learning. That's why we have Novice class.

Unfortunately, Street Mod is one of the toughest classes in the club, so you'd be putting yourself at the largest possible competitive disadvantage by going there.

Of course, I personally don't care what class you run in, and I think you'll find your competitors to be helpful and friendly no matter what you do. But I would like to see you stick with the sport, and if being competitive (result-wise) is an important factor in your sticking around, then staying in G Stock is something very easy (and cheap!) that you can do to give yourself a big advantage. It sounds counter-intuitive that you could be more competitive in a slower car, but that's the strange nature of autocross classing.

Good luck,

MarcusMcRae · **Posted:** Sat Mar 01, 2008 10:07 pm

Giving the A4 more power before you fix the suspension is more than likely going to make you slower. Also, for the amount of money you will spend making it a decent autox car you could buy a miata.

Chris Halweg · **Posted:** Sat Mar 01, 2008 10:31 pm

My $.02. In stock class you have a chance to be competitive. You may not care about trophies, ranking etc., BUT being competitive gives you a good measuring stick to know if you are getting better. If you are in a class where you are getting destroyed, it will be hard to measure improvement.

I'm not up on "chipping", but would it be possible to swap back to the stock tune for autocrosses, and then back to chip mode for daily driving?

RobLupella · **Posted:** Sun Mar 02, 2008 1:14 am

HershTapadia wrote:

Michael Hankewycz wrote:

Thank you everyone for the experienced feedback, but Chris hit the nail right on the head.

This A4 is my daily driver and these modifications are not oriented directly towards Autocross only. Considering the car has a curb weight of approximately 3.4 tons and 130 awhp (thanks to quattro drive train loss) according to dyno tests, the car feels rather slow on a daily basis. Passing a soccer mom in a van can be a daunting task at times. The cheapest and best bang for the buck performance upgrade is a simple ECU tune so I felt that was the best way to get a bump in engine performance without killing my fuel economy or wallet. Unfortunately these modifications will place me in a very competitive class.

On the course, the lack of horsepower and front end bias can be felt at every cone. People can say that the car has more in it, yet I see absolutely no one driving in a car like the A4 - so much weight, front end bias, lack of power, and even more lack of power due to awd (adding to the front end bias once again). I feel these first modifications will be the best initial upgrades to start with considering the weak points of the car. The ECU tune will provide additional power and torque at lower rpms thus helping with staying in boost range on the course while the very thick rear sway bar will help with stiffening the rear of the car and help make the car more neutral.
Once again, I sincerely appreciate everyone's helpful comments and welcome anyone and everyone to help me improve my times with this car in mind. In complete honesty, I would like to see some experienced drivers drive the car to see if they feel the same way as I do – perhaps at the Novice School?

mm not to bust your chops or anything but 3.4 tons is 6800 pounds...

It should weigh in at about 3800 lbs more or less, but what is 3000lbs amongst friends, Its all good.

Everyone is probably correct. Its your daily driver, so mod it to your liking, however, they won't help much on an AX course. It is cheaper and easier to upgrade the driver. The novice school is a big help.

See you there!!

:lol:

MikeWhitney · **Joined:** Wed Aug 20, 2003 9:15 pm **Posts:** 4724

I should add that ... realistically, if you seriously get the "bug" to keep autocrossing, like most of us here have, within a year you'll be ditching the A4 for something with more inherent autocross goodness. Many have sold their nice newer daily drivers for 10 year old Miatas or BMWs once they got into it.

So my vote is -- go for the power mods. You seem to be totally aware of what it's going to do to your classing. Check your time against G-Stock and strive to be faster than them.

Wes Eargle · **Joined:** Mon Oct 27, 2003 9:47 am **Posts:** 3683

MikeWhitney wrote:

I should add that ... realistically, if you seriously get the "bug" to keep autocrossing, like most of us here have, within a year you'll be ditching the A4 for something with more inherent autocross goodness. Many have sold their nice newer daily drivers for 10 year old Miatas or BMWs once they got into it.

So my vote is -- go for the power mods. You seem to be totally aware of what it's going to do to your classing. Check your time against G-Stock and strive to be faster than them.

And the bell goes ding. But I'd amend the GS times to DS and go from there.

says the guy with dyno-proven 110 wheel horsepower

steve remchak · **Posted:** Sun Mar 02, 2008 11:38 am

MikeWhitney wrote:

I should add that ... realistically, if you seriously get the "bug" to keep autocrossing, like most of us here have, within a year you'll be ditching the A4 for something with more inherent autocross goodness. Many have sold their nice newer daily drivers for 10 year old Miatas or BMWs once they got into it.

or buy a track car, trailer and tow rig. :roll:

Ryan Holton · **Posted:** Sun Mar 02, 2008 6:39 pm

Plus its not unheard of for GS or DS to out run the class he would end up in.

Michael Hankewycz · **Posted:** Thu Mar 06, 2008 12:38 am

On the topic of a more proper or dedicated Ax car, my father was intending to eventually purchase a Porsche Boxster sometime next year. Based on what I see on the course and what I have read around various forums, I think a Mazda Miata would be a much more practical solution.

In all honesty, if I could choose a particular car to drive at Ax at the moment, it would certainly be the Mazda Miata. The truth of the matter is I need a daily driver that is safe and practical - both of which the Mazda Miata does not fit.

I just thought I would clarify why I am so attached to the A4 at the moment and why there is no way I will be personally capable of switching over to something else for the time being.

ChristopherLin · **Joined:** Thu Feb 14, 2008 12:44 pm **Posts:** 125

about the getting a car just for autox...

i feel any car will do the job in making you a better driver and it's only going to be as fun as you want it to be. Sure other cars can be faster, but going driving fast in a slow car is much more impressive.

i've driven an HS 04 corolla and an STS2 crx(thanks jim)...sure the crx is tons faster, but i can drift in the corolla and throw it around more than i can the crx, which to me is tons of fun.

and now i drive a Fit, which has less power and weighs just about as much as the corolla, but that's not going to keep me from beating all the tire class guys :twisted:

...actually that's probably not going to happen...due to the all season tires i'm running...

no matter what car you're driving, you will have fun and improve, it just depends on if you want to win some trophies...

Todd Breakey · **Posted:** Thu Mar 06, 2008 9:36 am

I'm with Chris on this one. Find a car in your stable that you don't mind beating on a little bit and drive the crap out of it. I did that for years with an old 88 Celica that I had, then my 02 Mustang before buying my Miata. The Miata is by far the most fun car that I've owned (including the other 2 Miatas that I have had) and it was also the cheapest to buy.

If you guys are lookng for something more dedicated, you can't go wrong with the Miata. There are literally tons of them available and they can be bought very cheap. Aftermarket support is amazing. I seem to remember a guy in THSCC that bought one complete with a new soft top for less than $1000.

The Boxster is a blast to drive (thanks for the fun run Mitch!!) but you do have to pay the Porsche Tax that comes with ownership. Obviously parts are much more expensive and the car itself will be several times the purchase price of the Miata.

David Spratte · **Posted:** Thu Mar 06, 2008 12:47 pm

Ryan Holton wrote:

Plus its not unheard of for GS or DS to out run the class he would end up in.

Urban legend. Whatever.

Since everyone else is throwing their change into the piggy bank. . . .

If you were to stay in GS, I'd toss some OTS Koni yellows on there. Run them full soft on the street for daily driving and then crank the rears to full stiff for AX events, run about 55 pounds of pressure in the rear tires a saner 40 something upfront and see if you can get it to handle better before I started dumping money in HP.

If for no other reason than, if you're going to eventually end up jacking the power up, then it'd be nice to have a suspension on the car that will help you deal with it better.

The above may be worth a little less than you actually paid for it.

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