wheel size

davidurriola · **Joined:** Tue Jul 19, 2005 3:57 pm **Posts:** 25

so, old question for a new racer.

i have a 90 crx and i am just starting to autocross. im not looking at it too seriously. just messing around. but i am looking at tires. now i am of the understanding that i want 15" wheels with a 195/50-15, problem being i have 2 sets of wheels but they are both 16". so i would imagine i should go with a 205/40-16. the question is this.

how big a deal is the 15 vs 16 issue. i should be able to get some 15's in exchange for my 16's but is it worth the hassle? what am i really gaining?

also what model of tires would you recommend

KendtEklund · **Joined:** Tue Mar 27, 2007 7:29 pm **Posts:** 1204

Aren't 195/50-15 Bridgestones the almost 100% best bet here?

You could go 205/45-16, but you pay an extra $50 per tire in the 'stones.

Ryan Holton · **Posted:** Wed Feb 27, 2008 2:20 pm

davidurriola wrote:

how big a deal is the 15 vs 16 issue.

Not as big as some people make it out to be.

davidurriola wrote:

i should be able to get some 15's in exchange for my 16's but is it worth the hassle? what am i really gaining?

Cheaper tire purchase ATM

davidurriola wrote:

also what model of tires would you recommend

For ST*- Bridgestones
For R Comps- V710's

davidurriola · **Joined:** Tue Jul 19, 2005 3:57 pm **Posts:** 25

thanks for the replies. i apreciate it.

so it turns out bridgestone makes more than one model of tire. im new so im not already clued in to wich model you guys are talking about.

also while i apreciate the obvious difirence in price between the tires. and its good to know that the performance differance isnt great.....

what is the performance difference?

i really dont know what effect it has on the car to have the shorter sidewall. i would imagine the overall radius of the package is the same so that leaves only a sidewall difference to effect the performance. or am i missing something?

for example this car understeers something wicked, will the 15's help or hurt compared to a 16?

Karl Shultz · **Posted:** Wed Feb 27, 2008 6:18 pm

davidurriola wrote:

for example this car understeers something wicked, will the 15's help or hurt compared to a 16?

15 versus 16 inch tires won't change this one bit.

Todd Breakey · **Posted:** Wed Feb 27, 2008 6:24 pm

davidurriola wrote:

so it turns out bridgestone makes more than one model of tire. im new so im not already clued in to wich model you guys are talking about.

The Bridgestone RE-01R is what all the cool kids were using last year. That's why I got some for this year (thanks Mr. Feinberg).

There are also new ST* offerings from Kumho and Toyo, but I think they are more expensive.

Also the Falken Azenis are still really good local level tires and a bit cheaper than the 'Stones.

Ryan Holton · **Posted:** Wed Feb 27, 2008 6:32 pm

The Dunlop Direzza Z1 is cheaper and initial reports are its just as fast as the RE-01R

Having driven both the Azenis and the RE-01R, the RE-01R are worth the extra coin

Gwen Habenicht · **Posted:** Wed Feb 27, 2008 6:39 pm

David,
I bumped Chuck Branscumb's BFG R1 tire story back up to the front page so you could find it easily. Lot's of good info here, and many opinions. Good read for your tire questions.

Also, what Ryan said-good info-pretty tried and true.
For ST*- Bridgestones
For R Comps- V710's

KendtEklund · **Joined:** Tue Mar 27, 2007 7:29 pm **Posts:** 1204

I just got a set of Dunlops for combined track/AX wheels.

I'll quite possibly still get a set of 15in Bridgestones for AX, (long boring story edited out...)

KendtEklund · **Joined:** Tue Mar 27, 2007 7:29 pm **Posts:** 1204

And now for some useful info from me :lol:

-

Check out the comments on the new Toyo R1Rs over at sccaforums.com in the street touring section.

Reviews are not good - extreme wear, bad feel, soft carcass. Even the guy who won the Dixie event on them is offering his used set up for sale.

davidurriola · **Joined:** Tue Jul 19, 2005 3:57 pm **Posts:** 25

i really apreciate all this advice you guys are very helpfull

while the big tire page did mention sidewall momenterily i still dont understand the role sidewall height plays in how my car handles.

see now i feel like a pest

i would say that tire brand/model is my question it is only secondary to wheel size and impact of keeping my 16's, i dont care about wheel size for looks i just dont know if the hassle of getting new wheels is worth it. im on a budget and sometimes when your on a budget spending an extra couple of bucks on this set of tires rather than trying buy a set or trying to find someone with 15's to swap me. especially since my wheels are pretty ratty.

also i still have a nagging comment someone made once about lower sidewalls helping handling..... but i think that comment was from an idiot so im not sure on the validity. i do know that people i trust claim that 15 is the factory engineered size and thats why i should go with it.

im just a pest

DanDurusky · **Joined:** Sun Apr 10, 2005 7:31 pm **Posts:** 686

Bigger wheels mean shorter sidewalls. shorter sidewalls mean less transitional slop. however a bigger wheel setup is often a little heavier, has more expensive tires, and most performance tires have pretty darn stiff sidewalls so its maybe not a big/noticable deal.

Do the math on the added cost of getting new wheels minus the savings of smaller tires over the period of time you plan to autox.

IMO, buy the stickiest tires your class and budget allows and roll w/ it. The difference between a 15" and 16" wheel isnt going to make or break you.

KendtEklund · **Joined:** Tue Mar 27, 2007 7:29 pm **Posts:** 1204

davidurriola wrote:

i really apreciate all this advice you guys are very helpfull

Like I did, you'll find that's a defining feature of THSCC

davidurriola wrote:

while the big tire page did mention sidewall momenterily i still dont understand the role sidewall height plays in how my car handles.

see now i feel like a pest

- You could *not* be a bigger pest than I've been over the past few months with tire questions.

It sounds like you're doing a street tire class, right?

Sidewall height affects the tire's feel, but is also dependent on the construction of the sidewall. Initial reports are that the Dunlop Direzza Z1s have stiffer sidewalls than the Bridgestones, but most of the 15in and 16in Dunlops have taller sidewalls, so it may be a wash.

Bridgestone Potenza RE01R's are known quantity - that's the tire people are pointing at as a benchmark to beat. The Dunlops *may* be a match for them.

If you go to 15in wheels - B'stones 195/50 ($106) vs. Dunlop 195/55 ($84)
16in wheels - B'Stones 205/45 ($149) or 205/55 ($109) - Dunlops 205/50 ($103) or 205/55 ($103)

Remember the second number is the sidewall height, and a percentage of the treadwidth - so a 205/55 is taller than a 195/55.

You'll have to decide what's best for you, but the Dunlops look like a heck of a good value.

I haven't driven the Bridgestones - and the L'Burg event will be my first on the Dunlops
If someone who has run 'Stones wants to take a fun-run in my car at L'Burg and let us all know how they compare, it'll be very useful.

Wes Eargle · **Joined:** Mon Oct 27, 2003 9:47 am **Posts:** 3683

davidurriola wrote:

for example this car understeers something wicked, will the 15's help or hurt compared to a 16?

My two cents: From watching your car on course, tire compound is not going to cure your terminal understeer. You need to work on having reasonable spring rates and shocks that are working within manufacturer's specifications (ie: not blown). An alignment wouldn't hurt.

You have an ability go go balls out on course which is very hard to teach, and I respect the heck out of that. But it looks like to the outside observer that you don't have the equipment to deal with it. Good luck!

davidurriola · **Joined:** Tue Jul 19, 2005 3:57 pm **Posts:** 25

Wes Eargle wrote:

davidurriola wrote:

for example this car understeers something wicked, will the 15's help or hurt compared to a 16?

My two cents: From watching your car on course, tire compound is not going to cure your terminal understeer. You need to work on having reasonable spring rates and shocks that are working within manufacturer's specifications (ie: not blown). An alignment wouldn't hurt.

You have an ability go go balls out on course which is very hard to teach, and I respect the heck out of that. But it looks like to the outside observer that you don't have the equipment to deal with it. Good luck!

im laughing right now. let me fix this for you

"You have an ability go go balls out on course, to bad you cant fix stupid"

:lol:

i do have a tendency to write checks i cant cash, i do try to fly thru stuff when i should learn it instead. oh well, i am what i am.

i will say that i am improving my equipment to work with my wrecklessness. i upgraded my suspension between the test-n-tune, and race day. its not perfect but its better than it was. small upgrades are easier to swallow than large ones. $350 for the tokico blues with springs is on there now. i had wanted to wait for illuminatas but i didnt realize how bad what i was running was untill i had some solid people observing me at the test-n-tune. the knowledge base groups like thscc and the ncscca are invaluable resources. you can read alot of stuff online but having someone watching you drive is irreplaceable. in an honest moment the difference between the two shocks probably isnt notable at my level of driving. i have a tendency sometimes to try and buy my way into better results. if only i had the checkbook for that to work.

i know $130 puts a rear sway bar on it and thats in the plans to help with the understeer. some decent rubber should help me hold traction as well.

i didnt expect the sidewalls to be a factor in the understeer, but i know it does something. looks like the difference isnt measurable at the level i am competing at, wich just leaves the price per tire. ill probably go with 16's this time and keep my eyes out for someone who wants to trade rims.

thanks again for all the wonderful help

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