2008 PAX is out

JamesFeinberg · **Posted:** Sun Nov 18, 2007 8:45 am

David Spratte wrote:

Jim, you really think there's any significant development left in the 07+ Coopers? I mean. I'm pretty certain Ron Williams was on some custom valved Koni DAs, but even if they tweak the valving. . . how much more we talking?

To come at this from a slightly different direction, there was a .004 point swing between GS and DS from 2007 to 2008. That's a whopping 0.24 seconds on a 60-second course or 0.18 seconds on a 45-second course. Do you think it's possible that the new Minis might find ~2-tenths in consistent "development" over the course of the next year? It certainly doesn't seem outside the realm of possibilities to me. I'm not saying it will happen but it is definitely reasonable and well within the 5% tolerance range of crazy mojo.

That's not to say that the DS crowd won't find extra time either. The only real conclusion you can draw is that the PAX numbers aren't hard-coded to a formula and Rick Ruth likes to play the "speculation card" from time to time.

Jim

David Spratte · **Posted:** Sun Nov 18, 2007 9:30 am

There's some chicken/egg there. I think a lot of spectacular driver's are drawn to The MINIs not only because they are competitive but also because of the MINI USA cash that gets tossed around.

Not that anybody is going to get rich doing this, but it doesn't hurt.

Eric K. consistantly makes a pretty good case for a certain Nissan Sentra as an eventual overdog if the MINIs migrate.

Chris Halweg wrote:

It seems that the Mini's are pushing GS too far. I looked at one of the national results on the PAX reporting page, and it took several pages before I saw any GS car that was not a Mini S.

David Spratte · **Posted:** Sun Nov 18, 2007 11:11 am

JamesFeinberg wrote:

To come at this from a slightly different direction, there was a .004 point swing between GS and DS from 2007 to 2008. That's a whopping 0.24 seconds on a 60-second course or 0.18 seconds on a 45-second course. Do you think it's possible that the new Minis might find ~2-tenths in consistent "development" over the course of the next year? It certainly doesn't seem outside the realm of possibilities to me. I'm not saying it will happen but it is definitely reasonable and well within the 5% tolerance range of crazy mojo.

I guess we'll find out, but my hunch is that it's not likely. I thought part of the reason that people thought the 07+ were going to be so much faster is that the torque was available down low with the turbo and it doesn't seem to bear that out unless there's a magic bullet for getting power down on corner exit without sacrificing performance elsewhere.

All bets are off if MINI decides to do something different at the factory for '09, although I'm not sure what they could do at this point. Stronger LSD?

Personally, I'm writing a letter for a golf cart class.

JamesFeinberg · **Posted:** Sun Nov 18, 2007 9:14 pm

JamesFeinberg wrote:

Do you think it's possible that the new Minis might find ~2-tenths in consistent "development" over the course of the next year?

David Spratte wrote:

I guess we'll find out, but my hunch is that it's not likely. I thought part of the reason that people thought the 07+ were going to be so much faster is that the torque was available down low with the turbo and it doesn't seem to bear that out unless there's a magic bullet for getting power down on corner exit without sacrificing performance elsewhere.

Do you really think it's that unlikely that somebody could hit on a better setup that gives them a consistent 2-tenths advantage over 60 seconds? Heck, I think that's possible with the supercharged Minis. Don't get me wrong, I'm not in any way discounting the current talent in GS but history has shown that just when you think a platform is maxed out, somebody comes along and hits on something that gives them an edge over everybody else. The current class certainly has enough talent such that somebody could find something new.

Just to be fair, I definitely don't agree that GS should be "faster" than DS at this point. There certainly isn't any empirical evidence to support it but it seems that Mr Ruth thinks somebody might hit on something "new" next year. I don't agree with it but it isn't unreasonable. Same thing with ES -vs- STS2.

Me? I'm packing my bags and moving to HS. PAX forever!!! :lol:

Jim

Graham Jagger · **Joined:** Fri Aug 29, 2003 12:53 am **Posts:** 1718

JamesFeinberg wrote:

Me? I'm packing my bags and moving to HS. PAX forever!!! :lol:

Jim

Oh gee thanks! I was thinking of trying the Celica in 08 for fun. Maybe I'll just run TIR class...

JamesFeinberg · **Posted:** Mon Nov 19, 2007 8:03 am

Graham Jagger wrote:

Oh gee thanks! I was thinking of trying the Celica in 08 for fun. Maybe I'll just run TIR class...

I was kidding Graham. I haven't even decided on a car yet and I'll be in 'X' anyway. Besides, you'll have to contend with Spratte if you decide to run TIR.

Jim

Gwen Habenicht · **Posted:** Mon Nov 19, 2007 9:55 am

Graham Jagger wrote:

Oh gee thanks! I was thinking of trying the Celica in 08 for fun. Maybe I'll just run TIR class...

Oh, Graham, please come to HS. Either I'll have good competition...........

or you'll get beat by a girl! :woo:

David Spratte · **Posted:** Mon Nov 19, 2007 10:14 am

JamesFeinberg wrote:

Graham Jagger wrote:

Oh gee thanks! I was thinking of trying the Celica in 08 for fun. Maybe I'll just run TIR class...

I was kidding Graham. I haven't even decided on a car yet and I'll be in 'X' anyway. Besides, you'll have to contend with Spratte if you decide to run TIR.

Jim

Exactly! Saving money FTW!11!!!1. I figure next year, I can get one set of B'stones and just arrive and drive. No changing tires. Etc.

I'll defer, I haven't been around long enough to have any well formed opinions on this stuff. And, to be honest, I'm still focused on the nut behind the wheel. Car set up is, in someways to me an arcane thing.

Besides I might be in DS next year anyhow. :wink:

JamesFeinberg · **Posted:** Mon Nov 19, 2007 1:41 pm

The Man Himself wrote:

Okay -- GS beat DS at ALL of the Tours this year except three, two of them had the Borowski mobile in DS. If they hadn't been there, it would have been only two Tours that GS didn't beat DS. The Walnut Ridge Tour had no DS cars.

H's & K's,
Rick Ruth

So there you have it. I think there is only one logical conclusion to draw from this: The Crossfire slowed down DS.

Jim

Aaron Buckley · **Posted:** Mon Nov 19, 2007 1:45 pm

JamesFeinberg wrote:

So there you have it. I think there is only one logical conclusion to draw from this: The Crossfire slowed down DS.

Jim

With 5 months of development, I'd say it was pretty fast

Regardless, it will be faster next year, Minis or not. - AB

JamesFeinberg · **Posted:** Mon Nov 19, 2007 1:59 pm

Aaron Buckley wrote:

With 5 months of development, I'd say it was pretty fast

Regardless, it will be faster next year, Minis or not. - AB

TThere is a rumor floaTTing around TThat TThe acTTion in DS may heaTT up nexTT year. It is unconfirmed at the moment, however.

Jim

David Spratte · **Posted:** Mon Nov 19, 2007 2:02 pm

Aaron Buckley · **Posted:** Mon Nov 19, 2007 2:08 pm

JamesFeinberg wrote:

TThere is a rumor floaTTing around TThat TThe acTTion in DS may heaTT up nexTT year. It is unconfirmed at the moment, however.

Jim

Bring dat weak sauce...

- AB

Wes Eargle · **Joined:** Mon Oct 27, 2003 9:47 am **Posts:** 3683

JamesFeinberg wrote:

TThere is a rumor floaTTing around TThat TThe acTTion in DS may heaTT up nexTT year. It is unconfirmed at the moment, however.

Jim

Get audi here.

Ryan Holton · **Posted:** Mon Nov 19, 2007 2:39 pm

WOW, that could be Audi this world!

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