THSCC Forums

Some of you have already heard me state my opinion (complain) about peoples class and numbers. So I think I need to go out and get some paint before next year. Maybe I will get the spray chalk or maybe I will get spray paint. I guess you won't know unless your numbers suck and I spray your car then you try to wash it off!

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Malia Fredrickson
Clear Waters Travel
www.clearwaterstravel.com
919-656-8771

Kudos to Dustin Fredrickson for managing to wheel a stock Miata into the top ten raw and pax on a course that in my opinion was easily the most horsepower friendly course I've driven in as long as I can remember.

I'm glad everyone enjoyed the event and nothing regrettable happened. I had some concerns on setup day with the speed potential but had to agree with Mike that it was fast but still safe as he designed it.

I didn't really think it was that much of a horsepower course. Sure, extra power didn't hurt but even in the big acceleration zone coming out of the crossover, I couldn't use full power in the R. Once you got up to speed, you could pretty much maintain that through the rest of the course.

There weren't really any hard and long braking zones where you then had to accelerate for an extended period. Maybe it was just me...

Jim

X eleventy billion

I heard some people saying that and I thought, if I did that I would end up on the train tracks.

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02 Focus SVT
STF 9

Yup. Lots o'feathering of the throttle until it felt like it was about to hook up.

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Not spectacular just decent.
I'm not sure what I'm driving.
Maybe an ITR in DS.
Or half-assed STX prepped 330.

It's possible that some people took a big sweeping line through there which allowed them to flat-foot it sooner but if they did, I'd have to thank them for giving us another spot to gain time on them.

It would have been interesting to see the different approaches people took in that section but I wasn't curious enough to drag my sorry butt all the way down there.

Jim

I was full throttle from just before the cone on the left coming onto the runway until braking for the 3 cone "slalom" - awd and very little hp. I was also shifting to 3rd just before the first gate on the runway & nearly hitting rev limit before the slalom (75mph). The first couple of times, I tapped the brake with my left foot about midway to that first gate to try to get it to drift a little, but it didn't have enough power to make it fun, so I just used full throttle after that.

The only part of the course I was annoyed by was the 2-3 seconds on the rev limit in 2nd on the taxiway, just before the 50 cone slalom. Just had to sit there and daydream for a few seconds while trying to ignore the nananananananananananananananananananananananananana of the limiter; wish there hadn't been quite that much space there. If I had a faster 2nd gear it wouldn't have bothered me, though.

I was turning in, holding a constant steering angle from the taxiway all the way past the taxiway/runway corner cone while trying to be about 1mm from it & being at full throttle as I hit the runway. Same way I'd do it on a rallyx course.

I rode along with a novice driving a burgundy Integra LS (140 hp) a few times and he was a little timid getting on the gas coming out of the sweeper. So, on the last run I told him to floor it and that was a big mistake!

Being a fwd with no lsd like the R, the car just plowed across the blacktop section massively understeering.

After the run he was like, "yeah I literally couldn't steer for three seconds". Ooops. Bad coaching.

Well, I consider a horsepower friendly a course on which I can be full throttle for much of the time in my car. I had the hammer down for at least a second in 5 separate places just on the taxiway portion. A couple of those were more than 2 seconds and I nearly hit the rev limiter in 2nd (71mph) twice on the taxiway. On the main runway it was ridiculous. Coming out of the crossover onto the runway I might not have been quite full throttle, but still accelerating heavily and close to full throttle with some feathering just to keep the back end behind me. By the first gate I was absolutely full throttle and shifting to 3rd at ~65. I then had the hammer completely down for a good at least 5 seconds in third. A hard brake application at entry to the three cone slalom and back to full throttle for a several seconds coming out of the slalom and past the first offset. Light brake for the second offset. I think there was third offset that require a light brake or lift and back full throttle again all the way to the entrance for the last "slalom" which was another 2-3 seconds. All told I think I probably held full throttle for at least 25% of the course which is very unusual in a Z06 at an autocross.

Look at it this way also Jim, I had you by three seconds yesterday and I my "best" time was my slowest, I went over second faster dirty and you were in a moderately powerful car on race rubber. Two weeks before you beat me in raw time by 0.3 in a car with a 1/4 the horsepower as mine and "street" tires. The main difference in the two courses? I hardly ever was able to go full throttle at Dixie, maybe 4-5 seconds total.

Brilliant, brilliant event. I have absolutely no words for how much fun I had.

Really. That much fun. Me. No words.

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Martyn Wheeler
AXing Kit's '05 Mazda 3, #29 HStock
(when The Gonzo Symphonic allows)

I understand what you are saying but I just don't happen to fully agree with it.

You can't really compare what happened at Dixie to Sanford as everything was totally different. Dixie is notorious (at least to me) for being *very* power unfriendly for whatever reason. I've said this before but it was the only site where I was always faster turning down the boost on my old turbo car. With my regular "auto-x boost level," the car was simply unmanageable. With the CRX, that obviously isn't an issue and allows me to be much more aggressive there.

If I had to guess, I think I could have shaved off at least another second (probably closer to 2) on that course had I been driving the CRX. Matt's car was on dead tires and the CRX would have simply obliterated the tight stuff on the taxiway. I may have lost a touch of time accelerating in the big sweeper but that would have been more than canceled out by the momentum through the rest of the main runway. And remember, I nearly matched the time in Matt's car with Bret's car which was running street tires. It was also the first time I remember even sitting in that generation of Integra (Type-R or not) and certainly the first time I've ever driven one. Given a few more runs in Matt's car, I tend to think I would have shaved off more time in that as well. I'd be foolish to think I got all I could get after just 4 runs. Despite the ugly rumors, I'm no alien.

Anyway, it is all speculation but I have a feeling it isn't far off the mark. I'm not saying horsepower wasn't a factor on that course but I don't think it would have been a bad course for a "momentum car" either.

The only clear solution is to let me drive your 'Vette sometime.

Jim

I agree that comparing our relative times between Dixie and Sunday is far from ideal, but it is very hard to deny the effects of all the full throttle action in a 400 hp car on the overall time. I'm usually the first person to deny the advantage of horsepower on an AX course when someone claims an AX course is a "horsepower" course. People typically say this any time a course is faster than average, but thats simply not the case IMO and you've proven it many times. IMO "horsepower courses" to me are courses that allow long stretches of acceleration and this one had that in spades. Typical Sanford runways are higher speed, but still allow little full throttle acceleration in a Z06 and are just speed maintenance throttle modulation exercises at higher speeds. Oh and BTW, my tires weren't exactly fresh either, 80+ runs now.

Edit: and as for the co-drive in the vette, you have had the opportunities I think your just skeered.

I think that's where we have the slight disconnect in our respective "definitions." I look at horsepower courses in the same way but only if those long bursts of acceleration are followed by a huge braking zone leading into another huge acceleration zone. I didn't feel like any of the braking zones on the taxiway were that long meaning the relative speed through the slaloms was not too far off the relative approach speed.

Even at the end of the taxiway, I couldn't use full throttle after the braking zone all the way around to the entry to the 3-cone slalom on the main runway so that acceleration zone had to be tempered with some judicious throttle modulation. If anybody was full throttle around that entire section it leads me to believe they weren't going fast enough on entry, they took a long round-about line or they were driving a slow AWD car.

Either way, I will agree with you that it was probably the most horsepower dependent course we've had with Tarheel all year but I still wouldn't call it very unfair even if I was driving an HS car. At least not compared to some other courses I've run this season.

Interesting discussion for sure...



I would have if it wasn't for that booger-nose (yea, that's right, I said it-- booger-nose!!! ) Spratte pushing me to drive my insta-supa'-soft-PAX-winnar CRX. Besides, everybody knows I'm just a low-power FWD hack!

Jim

Speaking of HP courses, the only one I really remember since I started autocrossing again two years ago, was the first one Jackie and I did together...the non-points event at the end of 2005 at Sanford. I may be mixing up memories here, but I think that course went down the main runway where toward the end I was deep into 3rd gear in the M5 (~85mph), and then it had a long drag strip like finish up the taxiway where I again got deep into 3rd gear. However, I think it balanced those sections with some pretty tight stuff too, so the car performance spread was well-balanced (which means it really wasn't a "HP course" after all I guess -- oh well, nevermind).

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Current stable:
2019 BMW M2 Competition slicktop 6MT
2011 BMW M3 sedan slicktop 6MT
2007 BMW 328i wagon (slushbox for now)
1975 CanAm 125MX2