THSCC Forums

Jim, Steve Wynveen has poured a bunch of his own data together and concluded that his S2000 definitely turns better one way than the other and it was some small but relatively signficant amount. Enough that you could *see* the required bias when watching video of someone turning a wheel? I would have to agree that seems unlikely.

I've noticed that I almost always drive around town with my left hand only. I've also noticed that if I try to force myself to drive right handed only that I can't stand it and will switch back as SOON as my onscious mind drifts to something different. If I force myself to use both hands I can generally stay with that for MUCH longer than just trying to drive right handed (even when driving an automatic). The odd thing is I'm right handed.

I've also noticed that I have a very assymetrical body when it comes to stretching and a lot of weight lifting things I do. I believe some has to do with my last knee operation and some has to do with the way I drive (particularly since I seem to average something like 45,000 miles per year of driving). So what I'm saying is that I could very well be doing the same thing physically when I compete and not have noticed it myself.

I think if its something someone can *see* outside the car then it's probably something that working on would improve the driver doing it as far as time, too. This is a case where having a steering angle sensor hooked up to data acquisition would be handy. You could do a math channel on the position data and turn it into velocity and see what the peaks were the two directions of a longer evenly paced slalom...

On that note, I picked up my Cayman this past weekend (Saturday evening after that day of competition). Among the mods I had done I had an AiM data system put in. The cool part about that is it has a CAN module and connects to the car's communication system for all its sensors. Since I know the car has a steering angle sensor I may be able to get data like that for free. I haven't hooked up to it yet to see what's available to the AiM unit via CAN, but I'll bet its there. With some hacking I should be able to attach the DL-1 to the factory steering angle sensor on the STi, too.


--Donnie

So you're only excited about the datalogging possibilities of the car?

Spill it Barnes! How's the XP version of the Cayman?


Back to LHB?
Two thoughts:

1. If these are all un-corner balanced cars, I wonder if there's some compensation taking place for driver's weight? I'm not car savy enough but it seems like approximately 200 pounds on one side of the car or the other would change the handling characteristics assuming you ever get close enough to the real limit on a regular basis.

2. I've always had it in my head that you should mostly pull the wheel when making steering inputs. (Not like that VK. ) Instead of pushing. Something about better muscle control on a pull than a push. Both hands are involved, but the leading hand is doing more of the work? I'd be curious to see if a lefty exhibited the reverse regularly.

_________________
Not spectacular just decent.
I'm not sure what I'm driving.
Maybe an ITR in DS.
Or half-assed STX prepped 330.

What about the Sky driver that turned left towards the Chicago box that a Solstice was currently driving through? If that ain't love, I don't know what is.

_________________
Has no responsibility whatsoever.

Here's another data point. For those that don't get in their cars during alignments, on stock based cars (for every car that I have had aligned myself) all gain negative camber on the passenger side by adding the driver.

To me it seemed counter intuitive, but after sitting in for at least 20 alignments over the years (with varying suspensions types: A arm/multilink rear, Strut front/multilink rear, strut front/strut rear, Strut front/Solid axle rear, they've all seem to gain differing amounts.

The change ranged a lot, but the minimum gain I saw was -.3 degree.

On the RX-8, by evening out the the front camber at -1.4 degrees, if I got out of the car, the driver front would stay at -1.4 degrees, but the passenger front would reduce to -.9 degrees.

I think the moral of the story is to actually sit in the car during alignments. - AB

_________________
'14 Toyota Sequoia Platinum 4WD
Super Westerfield Bros - '93 Integra - LeChump Du Jour
STX 93 - Scion FR-S

But, aren't they going to look at me funny when I ask to sit in the car while they align it down at the tire shop?

_________________
~ RallyX VP 2009 ~
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
'92 Prelude
'76 Celica

OK, if I’m reading the data correctly from two of our runs yesterday, when compared, there were 12 instances where I pulled more lateral G’s than Bernie when making left steering inputs, and only 3 instances when my lateral G’s were higher when making right inputs. I’m VERY left handed and Bernie is right handed. Other than meaning that Bernie is making more smooth transitions than I, what is this telling us about LHB based on left handed drivers?

_________________
SCCA Solo Triad Award Recipient 2014
SCCA HSL National Champion 2012
SCCA DSL National Champion 2013
SCCA DSL National Champion 2014
NCR National Driver of the Year 2012
THSCC Heel of the Year 2011
Former Club Secretary
http://www.petscompanioninn.com

Some places might. I know Sturdivants and Hubcap Heaven wouldn't. It does require them to trust you to hold the brake and keep the wheel straight.

Personally, I wouldn't have my autocross car aligned at a shop that won't let me sit in it. - AB (anal alignment nazi)

_________________
'14 Toyota Sequoia Platinum 4WD
Super Westerfield Bros - '93 Integra - LeChump Du Jour
STX 93 - Scion FR-S

Wow. Doesn't Hunter make alignment equipment?

_________________
Not spectacular just decent.
I'm not sure what I'm driving.
Maybe an ITR in DS.
Or half-assed STX prepped 330.

QOTY.

_________________
Has no responsibility whatsoever.

Brad at Digital Chassis has big 40lb weights you can throw in the driver seat. I got as close to my weight as I could. FWIW

_________________
2001 Honda S2000 - SOLD
2012 Boss 302
2003 BMW 330i

Mark did my alignment a couple of weeks ago at HH. He has a stack of barbell plates sitting on the floor. Just load up the drivers seat until it's close to your weight. The Hunter racks are very sensitive to movement. You don't want to be sitting in the car fidgeting around while he is trying to square it off. He got the car dead on my specs, btw. Nice work as usual.

_________________
http://www.greywinds.com

I guess you old guys must twitch a lot No fidgeting here. It's only about an hour to do, so I can stay still for it - AB

_________________
'14 Toyota Sequoia Platinum 4WD
Super Westerfield Bros - '93 Integra - LeChump Du Jour
STX 93 - Scion FR-S

We do our own alignments for the most part, and we use weight in the driver's seat to do them. I'm quite sure Steve Wynveen has his car well aligned, too. But the basic premise here is that most cars aren't very well balanced and thus will corner better to one direction than the other. His data gathering showed that.

Again, I don't think this accounts for all that Jim is apparently seeing, though.

The Cayman? It's amazing so far. It's what Porsche should have built, that's for damned sure. 410HP, mostly GT3 Cup car suspension, LSD, and the best part...a Time Trial legal roll bar. *cough*


--Donnie

The first time or two they looked at me a little strange, but they get over it.

As soon as they don't need me to hold the brake, I take a quick nap!

_________________
GO FOR IT! BELIEVE IN YOURSELF.

Dibs on fun runs!

_________________
Not spectacular just decent.
I'm not sure what I'm driving.
Maybe an ITR in DS.
Or half-assed STX prepped 330.