will this kick me out of STS?

Aaron Buckley · **Posted:** Mon Dec 08, 2003 4:52 pm

A lot of people have pointed out there are three types of autocrossers: people who run Nationally, those that aspire to run Nationally (or at the divisional level), and those that run locally only.

The National folk like myself, know the rules very well for their class, or other classes if they are changing or just like reading the rule books. For this crowd, the rules are everything, and most are reading the rule books to make sure they have prepped their cars to not only make them legal, but to the limit of the rules as well.

For the aspiring crowd, they are starting to understand the rules a bit better, asking questions about potential illegal equipment, and probably realizing that the rules are very strict, and thus their car is illegal for the particular class (things like a change in shifter knob will kick you out of stock is a good example). The $15 purchase of a rule book, or borrowing a current book would be ideal for this group.

Then there is the local crowd. They could consist of former National level drivers that have 'retired' and those that just do this for fun. This is where you get the biggest variation in thoughts on the rules. Some say it's just for fun and who cares, and others feel very strongly about the rules. It's all a function of the person's personality or how they feel about competition in general. This is where the bulk of our club resides.

With the different aspirations you get different schools of thought. My personal opinion is that if someone isn't playing by the rules that they're cheating themselves, not me. I really don't care if I lose to someone at the local level, even if their car is illegal and I know it. Some people it bothers more than others. At the National level, I'll protest someone if they're cheating. Plain and simple. :wink:

I can tell you with good certainty I'm probably as well versed as anyone in the club with the SCCA Solo2 rules, for I've handled my share of protests at National events (working impound at every event for the last year or so), so I know my way around the rule book very well. Plus, I just enjoy reading it. That's just my gig. - AB

DickRasmussen · **Posted:** Mon Dec 08, 2003 4:55 pm

jimpastorius wrote:

As for what is a weenie protest, usually the person getting protested thinks it is a weenie protest. I would suggest a review of the SCCA protest rules. The protest committee has a broad range of leeway in doling out penalties.

I've been a National's Protest Committee member a few times. Jim makes a good point above regarding the "eye of the beholder". Note that in some classes, usually the ones allowing lots of modifications, there are probably competitors that are purposely hoping that their interpretation of a rule is correct . . . or at least gets a majority of the votes in a protest committee or Appeal Committee.

By the way, both my cars are 100 percent legal for their class (unless one of the many FF engine builders did something wrong over the years and the last one didn't catch the mistake)

jimpastorius · **Posted:** Mon Dec 08, 2003 5:08 pm

DickRasmussen wrote:

By the way, both my cars are 100 percent legal for their class (unless one of the many FF engine builders did something wrong over the years and the last one didn't catch the mistake)

Even with duct tape on my front air dam, my car is 100% legal. So I get to cast stones

I think there is only one other car in THSCC that has gone through more impounds the last two years than mine. :lol:

Every one trys to bend the rules as far as possible. I know my car and every other national MR2 does. Ask me Tuesday about it if you really want to know.

I applaud Chris for doing research into his modification. That is the way to do it. If you are breaking the rules, shame on you. You are only cheating yourself.

I agree 100% with Diane. I trust that individuals that show up, especially on the local level, are up front and honest. That is why we do not have impound at the local level. I can see it now...THSCC initiates an impound procedure and requires all cars to remove one front and one rear tire while in impound. I hope it never comes to that!

jimpastorius · **Posted:** Mon Dec 08, 2003 6:07 pm

Chris Brown wrote:

jimpastorius wrote:

Try stac@scca.com

my email to this addy got returned...any other addresses to try?

From Mark Sipe

Quote:

Here is the message sent by TeamZ4:

--------------------------------------------------

Hi Jim,

regardless of the address all letters go through Doug Gill for submission to the SEB and copied to the appropriate advisory committee, just send it to:

SEB@scca.com

and it will go to the appropriate place. This is because some letters, while directed at a certain prep level, may end up requiring a same or additional clarification in another prep level. It would assist Doug in routing the letter if the class or prep level is listed in the title. Please let me know how we can be of further assistance.

Sincerely,

Mark Sipe

Ryan Holton · **Posted:** Mon Dec 08, 2003 7:09 pm

Chris Brown wrote:

Also, I seem to remember reading that chaning the intercooler pipes were legal in STS/STX. Is that illegal, legal?

Starting 1/1/04 non stock IC pipes in STS/STX are ILLEGAL! http://www.scca.org/news/tech/fastrack/04-01fastrack.pdf

SCCA FastTrack wrote:

6) Street Touring: 14.10.B is clarified to read, "The air intake system up to, but not including, the engine inlet may be modified or replaced. For naturally aspirated engines, the engine inlet is the inlet to the throttle body or carburetor. For turbocharged or supercharged engines, the engine inlet is the compressor inlet.

I hate to say it Chris, but I think that BOV is gonna have to be a 100%stock VW part. The 2nd Gen DSM crowd has the same issue with their BOV.

Hope this helps and welcome to the wonderful world of TURBOCHARGERS!

Ryan

Chris Brown · **Posted:** Mon Dec 08, 2003 9:00 pm

Ryan Holton wrote:

SCCA FastTrack wrote:

6) Street Touring: 14.10.B is clarified to read, "The air intake system up to, but not including, the engine inlet may be modified or replaced. For naturally aspirated engines, the engine inlet is the inlet to the throttle body or carburetor. For turbocharged or supercharged engines, the engine inlet is the compressor inlet.

I hate to say it Chris, but I think that BOV is gonna have to be a 100%stock VW part. The 2nd Gen DSM crowd has the same issue with their BOV.

Hope this helps and welcome to the wonderful world of TURBOCHARGERS!

Ryan

bummer...

i'm new to turbos so please forgive my ignorance...is the a BOV the same thing as a frequency valve...i get confused with a BOV, frequency valve and a Diverter Valve.

anyway, it looks like from your posting that it wouldn't be legal. i have an email into the guy at scca to be sure...i'll post his reply after i get it.

Jason Mauldin · **Posted:** Mon Dec 08, 2003 9:20 pm

Chris what does this valve do? Do you have a picture?

Peter Baio · **Posted:** Tue Dec 09, 2003 1:13 am

BlowOff Valve vents air in-between the turbo and the intercooler to relieve stress on the turbo when the TB closes suddenly. Some vent to the air, others vent back into the intake depending on what kind of sensor your car runs off. Im pretty sure that's accurate.

Im not completely sure but the frequency valve sounds like it might be the wastegate, which is between the header and the turbo to regulate the amount of boost.

Once again im not completely sure about all this, as im just am really starting to research turbo parts for my future plans :wink:

Jason Mauldin · **Posted:** Tue Dec 09, 2003 1:25 am

I've never seen reference to a frequency valve, but different manufacturers call those some pieces by different names.

I just did a quick google search. The frequency valve looks to the solenoid that the ecu uses to control boost. By changing this, you are directly effecting the boost level, and I can't see the scca guys allowing that. Ryan, this is basically the same thing as our "Boost control solenoid".

If it dies in the open state you wouldn't you be running as much boost as it could bleed off. Seems like that would be a warranty nightmare just for a little $20 valve.

Chris Brown · **Posted:** Tue Dec 09, 2003 11:41 am

Jason Mauldin wrote:

Chris what does this valve do? Do you have a picture?

from ECS Tuning

"The N75 is the VW/Audi part identification number for the wastegate by-pass regulator valve. This valve is responsible for controlling the movement of the pneumatic actuator which drives the wastegate. The wastegate is an internal valve in the turbo-charger which controls the amount of exhaust gas that flows over the turbo impeller generating boost. Under normal operating conditions the engine's ECU sends signals to the N75 valve asking it to open or close which adds or reduces pressure on the wastegate actuator which results in more or less boost."

Chris Brown · **Posted:** Tue Dec 09, 2003 11:55 am

i've pretty much come to the conclusion that it is not an STS legal mod...I haven't heard from the SCCA guy yet, but i'm pretty sure that's what he'll say.

now if it ain't legal, i won't be running it. in my opinion, we should all stick to the spirit of the rules. i always knew that this part would be a performance enhancement, i just hoped that it was a legal performance enghancement....if mine dies, i'll just get a stock replacement...if it keeps dying, i'll reconsider my options

thanks for everyone's help!!!

Chris Brown · **Posted:** Tue Dec 09, 2003 2:54 pm

here's the reply i got from Doug Gill (SCCA Technical Manager):

"Hi, Chris,

I'm not sure what a frequency valve does on your VW. The rule states, " . . . no changes to standard boost levels, intercoolers, or boost controls are permitted." I'm assuming you are talking about "smoothing out" the turbo pressures. If so, it is a boost control.

Speaking for the SEB, it is not legal if it affects the boost in any way.

Sorry. Hope this helps.

- Doug
"

Tom Hoppe · **Joined:** Wed Aug 20, 2003 10:16 am **Posts:** 387

I have a few opinions that I figured I would share.

I also believe that not too many cars are 100% legal to the exact letter of the rules. Jim, I GUARANTEE that your car is not 100% legal. Hell, mine is not. My header has burned a 1" long gash in my splash shield. Not legal. I broke a few of those plastic fasteners last time I was messing with my fender liners, not legal. I bet youre missing a fastener on your 10 year old car. Not legal.

As far as the boost and this valve goes and anything like this in the future. Any part that has anything to do at all in any way shape or form with any part of the turbo operation has to stay completely stock and be the exact same part # as came on the car.

The only way to "modify" boost is to use a specifically legal part such as an exhaust. I have a huge 3" downpipe with a dual dump wastegate design that spikes the hell out of my boost. The stock turbo and stock controls are calibrated for a 2" system and when you throw that big exhaust on the car you get a 17lb boost spike

-Tom
whose car is NOT 100% rulebook legal but I would *love* for someone to protest me on something and go to a protest committee.

jimpastorius · **Posted:** Wed Dec 10, 2003 11:12 am

Tom Hoppe wrote:

I also believe that not too many cars are 100% legal to the exact letter of the rules. Jim, I GUARANTEE that your car is not 100% legal. Hell, mine is not. My header has burned a 1" long gash in my splash shield. Not legal. I broke a few of those plastic fasteners last time I was messing with my fender liners, not legal. I bet youre missing a fastener on your 10 year old car. Not legal.

I do not have the rule book here at work. But I am not sure where all this fastener thing comes into play. I know the rules states you can not remove any panels that are fastened into place. But I do not remember that all or how many fasteners have to be there.

By the way, I am not missing any fasteners

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