THSCC Forums

I did figure in the additional fuel. Actually, my extra fuel is about $80 more for a HPDE weekend than an AX. But I was being conservative.

I enjoy HPDE and Track. So I was being kind to the cost figures and only comparing what 90% of the club members would be doing.

If you want to compare national AX, then you need to start looking at W2W for an actual comparison. And then the costs for track are far greater. In reality, AX (local and regional) should be compared to TT costs, And you have to figure in car set up costs.

Regardless on how you try and manipulate the figures, there is no way that the track seat time cost less than AX. Simply, no way.

Yes, you get more actual time behind the wheel on track. But I know you are actually driving the car more at an AX. Watch a video of a good AX driver's inputs compared to a good track driver's inputs. During an AX run, your hands are constantly working that wheel.

Finally, on track you are going faster. But at an AX you are going to be pulling more g-forces. That is what gives the impression that you are going a lot faster than 35 mph

And AX takes a lot more mental preparation than track. There is just a lot of thinking, planning and executing going on. That is where most people drop the ball. No two courses are ever the same (except for Laurinburg and Dixie Fair Grounds) and you need to learn it and be fast right out of the box. Can you imagine if every track changed its layout every week?

For these reasons, I think it is important for us to remember what AX is all about. It is not about speed. Go to the track for that. Make sure you are giving the paying customer what they plopped their $20-$30 down for.

_________________
Jim Pastorius
2008 Silverado VortecMax
1992 Camaro CMC#92
2002 BMW R1150R

2009 3rd Place CMC Mid-Atlantic Championship
2009 CMC Hyperfest Winner

Do I need to include the cost of the car and prep-work in that calculation as well? The car was bought and is being built specifically for this event... so the answer is probably yes.

adamb

_________________
Adam Breakey
Founder - www.autocrossforum.com
SS 75 Red(isfasterthanyellow) Z06

But you are equating a driving school with the National Championship Pro Solo. To be fair, compare your cost for the Pro with the ITA Run-Offs in Topeka. Now figure your car prep needed to get to that level to finish in the Run-Offs were you finished at the Pro.

_________________
Jim Pastorius
2008 Silverado VortecMax
1992 Camaro CMC#92
2002 BMW R1150R

2009 3rd Place CMC Mid-Atlantic Championship
2009 CMC Hyperfest Winner

Jim... I was just joking with that comparison!!!! You do know that 37% of statistics are made up. I was just illustrating exactly how far out of whack comparing oranges to apples really is.

You cannot compare one hobby to another and expect to come to a conclusion that says x is better than y. It really only comes down to what you are willing to pay to play. It doesn't matter how much seat time you get, or how many cones you shag. It only matters if you are getting the most enjoyment out of the event you possibly can. I enjoy all forms of motorsports... right now ProSolo is my favorite, but will it still be after the changes the SCCA has decided to make? Who knows?!

anyway -- go, race, have fun.

adamb

_________________
Adam Breakey
Founder - www.autocrossforum.com
SS 75 Red(isfasterthanyellow) Z06

I guess my learning curve is long because I still like to do Autocross and Track after all those years and the end
doesn't seem to be coming soon. The main think is to have fun with what you do. If the fun is not there anymore it's time to move on to something else.

About the the road racer trying an Autocross here the following.
Many years ago for the Canadian Autocross Championship I manage to borrow a car from the Acura dealership to do it.
It help that the guy at the dealership was a veteran road racer. He had win many championships in different series but had never
done autocross. I convince him to give it a try. He like it and had a decent time but find it more difficult than he taught.
His comment was that he had difficulty finding the line because there where no grass lining up the track.
That year was my best results at the CAC with a 3rd place.

Patrice

I understand your point. But... opinions are formed based on past and present experiences. It's human nature.

Right now I'm really enjoying track. Yes it is the new bright shiny object for me. So far I enjoyed AX the most in my 2nd year chasing Miles. That won't soon be forgotten. HPDE has not surpassed that yet. DE is Education and a Test&Tune. I'm using it to explore possibilities... I do thoroughly enjoy getting hours of practice time on my weekend instead of 10 minutes if I did an AX weekend.

After I get 3 years of events done I'll let you know which one I had more fun doing. Either way I'll have good and bad memories of doing both.

As long as you get out there and do something then it's all good!

_________________
http://www.greywinds.com

Ireiterate my point that you are all F*&*&ing accountants. It is not about fun/minute or seat time p/$$$ but HAVING FUN!!!!!!

One doesn't have to be better than the other, they are different, some may like one better than another, some may like both or all, others neither, but they are all fun and better than WORK!!!

Hey isn't this fun to have our usual winter rant thread

I think it may have been missed... but that was the point I was trying to make with my crazy $6,000/minute vs $22/min analysis. The point is exactly what you said. It doesn't matter that one event type costs. it only matters that you are having a great time doing what you chose to do that weekend. For me, I am an equal opportunity racer, I haven't found a race that I haven't enjoyed.

_________________
Adam Breakey
Founder - www.autocrossforum.com
SS 75 Red(isfasterthanyellow) Z06

I agree...I got hooked with "motorized racing" with dirt bikes and then later motocross (before long travel suspensions -- jumps higher than 6 feet were lethal) in the early-mid 70's. I still have my '75 CanAm MX2 motocross bike. The fun for me has always been in understanding the physics behind either a dirt bike or car (i.e. not necessarily formerly, but definitely intuitively), practicing and practicing to maximize my ability and then having fun racing and/or playing.

Dirt bike trail racing back then was a lot of fun, and there wasn't any worry about property issues for the most part...a lot different than today. Some of the best memories I have of weekend dirt bike fun are of racing on a fire road around an old abandoned government nuclear plant near Dahlonega, GA. An all-out battle between Pentons (KTMs), Hondas (Elsinore MX bikes), Suzuki TMs and RMs and me on my CanAm to see who can make it around to the next check point first....from challenging uphill rutted sections to flat-out long straights to a bridge you have to cross walking the bike because most of the planks are gone -- talk about a challenge to do quickly!

_________________
Current stable:
2019 BMW M2 Competition slicktop 6MT
2011 BMW M3 sedan slicktop 6MT
2007 BMW 328i wagon (slushbox for now)
1975 CanAm 125MX2

I thought that only Robert Plank was an accountant. Who knew that the rest of us were too?

_________________
Has no responsibility whatsoever.

This is like a Halon system for fun.

_________________
Not spectacular just decent.
I'm not sure what I'm driving.
Maybe an ITR in DS.
Or half-assed STX prepped 330.

I repeat, I am not an Accountant! However I do need to keep track of costs so I know how deep I'm in for "entertainment". The simple theory of spend until you're broke doesn't work for me. I don't know exactly how much I spent last year and don't really want to know to the $. But I do need to know within $$$-$$$$.

I'm also not saying one is better than the other. There is one I would choose to do first at this point when given an option.



Yep, this could replace the annual TIR Class debate. We've beaten that horse past death. There aren't even ashes at this point...

I think the only thing more entertaining than this debate would be whether to end LAD class in AX

_________________
http://www.greywinds.com

On that note, I move that we end all OPEN classes and have every one run TIR, except for the Ladies and anyone who has ever been photographed wearing a Bud Girl dress, they can run LAD class!!!!!

_________________
Todd Breakey
STS 42 - 1992 Sunburst Miata
Dammit!
"You souldn't play leap frog with a porcupine. You might get hurt." - Eliza

I'm not confused on them Emmie. I know what they are. I was just having fun and waiting to see which of the RX crowd would jump and compare $/min/fun I miss seeing World Rally on Speed. Those dumb a$$es replaced it with Pinks and The Life of a Nascar Racer...

I grew up in Maine and learned to drive tractors and dump trucks around a big farm. Then we would hot rod an old Rambler we pieced together on the dirt back roads and through the sand pits. Then we went to Drivers Ed so we could get licenses to drive on the streets

Some day I will come out and rent a ride in one of the rally beaters or something to give RX a try. I hear you get more seat time for your $ than AX

_________________
http://www.greywinds.com

I'm sure you'll get the most seat time per $ of anyone there, Graham!

Lucky for me, I prefer quality over quantity - otherwise, I'd be screwed.