The SCCA is the SUCK.

Patrice Bousquet · **Posted:** Tue Dec 05, 2006 3:00 pm

My engine is stock too in the Porsche. It's from a different year but it's still stock except for the exhaust and the air filter.
It still have the original chip in the ECU. I did 5 track this year, it cost me 1 set of tire and 1 set of brake pads.
This winter by precaution I will replace all 4 discs and rebuilt the calipers. The last time I did that was about 5 years ago.
If you take the registration price alone and check the dollar/time ratio, track is around $1.5 min and AX $5 min.
If your instructor it's better but you have to work for it.
Next year I will do like this year. Do the AX with the club and the NCAC and do some tracks. I will like to try a new track next year
I'm thinking at Mid Ohio we will see how the calendar is panning out.

Patrice

Vincent Keene · **Posted:** Tue Dec 05, 2006 3:36 pm

Patrice Bousquet wrote:

My engine is stock too in the Porsche. It's from a different year but it's still stock except for the exhaust and the air filter. It still have the original chip in the ECU.

A '73 has an ECU? :shock:

Michael Westerfield · **Posted:** Tue Dec 05, 2006 3:39 pm

Vincent Keene wrote:

Patrice Bousquet wrote:

My engine is stock too in the Porsche. It's from a different year but it's still stock except for the exhaust and the air filter. It still have the original chip in the ECU.

A '73 has an ECU? :shock:

There are hampsters in there that flip dip switches.

Chris Brown · **Posted:** Tue Dec 05, 2006 3:49 pm

Michael Westerfield wrote:

Vincent Keene wrote:

Patrice Bousquet wrote:

My engine is stock too in the Porsche. It's from a different year but it's still stock except for the exhaust and the air filter. It still have the original chip in the ECU.

A '73 has an ECU? :shock:

There are hampsters in there that flip dip switches.

but they are german hampsters so they do it with amazing speed and accuracy. :wink:

Patrice Bousquet · **Posted:** Tue Dec 05, 2006 3:53 pm

The ECU came with the 88 engine. The original engine was fuel injected, it was the CIS type of injection. It was the first year it was used in a 911 actually it started halfway thru the 73 model year so my car is often refer to as a 73 1/2.

To answer Michael, to save car weight i switch to " MAUS ".

Patrice

Michael Westerfield · **Posted:** Tue Dec 05, 2006 3:58 pm

Chris Brown wrote:

Michael Westerfield wrote:

Vincent Keene wrote:

A '73 has an ECU? :shock:

There are hampsters in there that flip dip switches.

but they are german hampsters so they do it with amazing speed and accuracy. :wink:

Don't forget since it was a 73' model they have side burns.

Graham Jagger · **Joined:** Fri Aug 29, 2003 12:53 am **Posts:** 1718

Vincent Keene wrote:

Of course the dollar$/min seat time ratio on track is much better than AX. I spent less than $400 on tires to do 8 events this year. However I did spend about $900 on just brakes. Imagine what they would cost if my car would do more than 110 at VIR?

I agree with you on the $$$/min of seat time for HPDE vs AX. And you don't have to shag cones. I get my afternoon siesta instead :wink:

Tires cost me $1K. Brakes were about $500. About $150 for oil, trans, diff fluids. So roughly $1650 for 8 events. But I still have some pads and tires left to start 07. The entry fees and hotels are the biggest expense. I may be sleeping on an air mattress on my tire trailer next year instead of the stylish Lodge suites :wink:

Your custom rotors kill you on cost. Mine are $25/each from NAPA all day long. I can assure I got well over 110 on all the tracks and pads go away quickly. My car thinks Carbotechs are snacks...

RobLupella · **Posted:** Tue Dec 05, 2006 5:07 pm

Graham Jagger wrote:

Vincent Keene wrote:

Of course the dollar$/min seat time ratio on track is much better than AX. I spent less than $400 on tires to do 8 events this year. However I did spend about $900 on just brakes. Imagine what they would cost if my car would do more than 110 at VIR?

I agree with you on the $$$/min of seat time for HPDE vs AX. And you don't have to shag cones. I get my afternoon siesta instead :wink:

Tires cost me $1K. Brakes were about $500. About $150 for oil, trans, diff fluids. So roughly $1650 for 8 events. But I still have some pads and tires left to start 07. The entry fees and hotels are the biggest expense. I may be sleeping on an air mattress on my tire trailer next year instead of the stylish Lodge suites :wink:

Your custom rotors kill you on cost. Mine are $25/each from NAPA all day long. I can assure I got well over 110 on all the tracks and pads go away quickly. My car thinks Carbotechs are snacks...

You all are accountants. It's not the seat time/$$ it is how much fun you have doing either one. Once you start putting formulas to it the whole thing becomes like work.

Personally, I have fun both Track and AX but to me they are different, either way if I am doing one or the other I am not working, but having fun. Even when I drive terribly it is still more fun than work.

MikeWhitney · **Joined:** Wed Aug 20, 2003 9:15 pm **Posts:** 4724

RobLupella wrote:

You all are accountants. It's not the seat time/$$ it is how much fun you have doing either one. Once you start putting formulas to it the whole thing becomes like work.

Personally, I have fun both Track and AX but to me they are different, either way if I am doing one or the other I am not working, but having fun. Even when I drive terribly it is still more fun than work.

Agreed. And I think all you guys who get lots of events out of your consumables just aren't trying hard enough. To get the same adrenaline rush on track that I get autocrossing, I run hard enough to go through a set of tires and brakes every 2 or 3 events. $1000 in consumables at a track weekend where I was getting bored by the end of 20 minute sessions has a lot to do with why I backed off on track events.

Aaron, you'd get to that point too, and like so many of us realize that you're bored with just lapping a track fast, then you'll want to go roadracing.

Aaron Buckley · **Posted:** Tue Dec 05, 2006 5:46 pm

MikeWhitney wrote:

Aaron, you'd get to that point too, and like so many of us realize that you're bored with just lapping a track fast, then you'll want to go roadracing.

The plan is to get the competition license and see what I want to do then. Autocross certainly won't be out of the equation, but of all years, this one might be the year to play on track. - AB

jimpastorius · **Posted:** Tue Dec 05, 2006 8:34 pm

MikeWhitney wrote:

Aaron, you'd get to that point too, and like so many of us realize that you're bored with just lapping a track fast, then you'll want to go roadracing.

Now you share your wisdom....where were you a couple of months ago :-)

MikeWhitney · **Joined:** Wed Aug 20, 2003 9:15 pm **Posts:** 4724

jimpastorius wrote:

MikeWhitney wrote:

Aaron, you'd get to that point too, and like so many of us realize that you're bored with just lapping a track fast, then you'll want to go roadracing.

Now you share your wisdom....where were you a couple of months ago :-)

Hey, I'd recommend anyone try it. I wouldn't give back my one debut roadrace weekend in the Civic. And I won on Sunday!

Good thing I found out Kendra was pregnant about the same time, as I had to re-evaluate my priorities -- if that hadn't happened I would probably still be at it, "Powered By Visa"

In the end I decided I could probably support a 4-5 event roadrace schedule per year or do 8 local autocrosses + 8 rallycrosses + 1 or 2 HPDEs with the same $$ and time committment. I went with quantity over quality.

I think the next "real" race car I own will be designed for driving on dirt

Simon and Kieran have me thinking evil thoughts :twisted:

There's lots of room in my Subie Wagon for a kick ass cage.

Keith Vail · **Posted:** Tue Dec 05, 2006 9:36 pm

AdamBreakey wrote:

Aaron -- you need to find something similar to what I found. I got a SSC Mazda Protege (former National Runoffs winner) with many many spares for only $2500. It is fully legal and a blast to drive.

Found your car. It is no Mazda but it is sure cheap enough.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Plymouth-Neon-ACR-SCCA-SSC_W0QQitemZ280056305546QQihZ018QQcategoryZ98064QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

Carl Fisher · **Posted:** Tue Dec 05, 2006 10:59 pm

MikeWhitney wrote:

Simon and Kieran have me thinking evil thoughts :twisted:

There's lots of room in my Subie Wagon for a kick ass cage.

Let me give you the same advice I give everyone, and they all ignore: buy it, don't build it. Even though a pre-built rally car may seem more expensive than building up your own, it really won't be, even if you count the original "donor" car as being free. Of course I understand your desire to know that everything was "done right", but it's a lot easier and faster to verify that on an existing car and re-do what's needed than to figure it all out yourself and then do it.

I'd also recommend you start out with a basic, reliable, 2WD car to develop your skills before jumping into the 4WD fray. A VW Golf is a great choice. Rally is not just "fast rallycross". Once you've learned what you need to know, you can sell the car to the next newbie coming up.

Just my $0.02.

Kevin Hoff · **Posted:** Wed Dec 06, 2006 3:16 pm

Carl Fisher wrote:

MikeWhitney wrote:

Simon and Kieran have me thinking evil thoughts :twisted:

There's lots of room in my Subie Wagon for a kick ass cage.

Let me give you the same advice I give everyone, and they all ignore: buy it, don't build it. Even though a pre-built rally car may seem more expensive than building up your own, it really won't be, even if you count the original "donor" car as being free. Of course I understand your desire to know that everything was "done right", but it's a lot easier and faster to verify that on an existing car and re-do what's needed than to figure it all out yourself and then do it.

I'd also recommend you start out with a basic, reliable, 2WD car to develop your skills before jumping into the 4WD fray. A VW Golf is a great choice. Rally is not just "fast rallycross". Once you've learned what you need to know, you can sell the car to the next newbie coming up.

Just my $0.02.

If you do ignore Carl's advice and decide to build a Subaru be sure to buy Randy Zimmer's build book PDF. It is something like $200 but should easily save you many multiples of that cost in building things right the first time.

--Kevin H.

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