Revisit *shudder* the Novice Class discussion

ChuckNelson · **Posted:** Thu Nov 02, 2006 3:26 pm

Ok. How about the last Novice at the Christmas party gets the trophy.

steve remchak · **Posted:** Thu Nov 02, 2006 3:47 pm

ChuckNelson wrote:

Ok. How about the last Novice at the Christmas party gets the trophy. :D

how about the last novice still standing at the Xmas party gets the trophy. Jaeger shots anyone?

i like Scott's idea also.

Wes Eargle · **Joined:** Mon Oct 27, 2003 9:47 am **Posts:** 3683

Jager? Christmas party shots rely on George bringing the:

Stephen Westerfield · **Posted:** Thu Nov 02, 2006 4:24 pm

MikeWhitney wrote:

scottjohnson wrote:

Gwen Baake wrote:

I’m sitting here trying to figure how one could carry points over from Nov to Open without sticking it to the people in Open. Say a Nov has 21 points after 4 races and moves to his Open class. What does that do to the guys who’ve competed against stronger competition in that Open class all year? It would give the Novice an advantage because he/she raced against different (weaker) competition to achieve the points. In theory, you’d have events with 2 first place points, 2 second place points, etc, etc, etc. What am I missing here? I’ll admit to being a dim bulb if someone will enlighten me.

We still class novices in a base class, right?

If I run Nov-GS and drive fast enough to beat David in GS then I get 1st place points in GS and David gets 2nd place points. We score it that way EVERY event. The novice will show up in the final results in GS open class.

We will also print a set of indexed "novice" results at the event and award trophies accordingly.

It appears that AXWare can already do this, so there isn't a large amount of work involved.

No one gets screwed here, hell the Novices could win two trophies (or more if they get FT... trophies as well).

The catch? You can't apply your novice points to "Tire" class. You can run novice 101 or novice 201, but not both.

Scott

I really like this idea.

This makes absolutely no sense to me. If you are a novice and show up to your first event and beat the guy that's in first place in your respective open class and then don't move to open the next event.....how important was that precious wood to you in the first place? What the heck would posses you to stay in NOV? What am I missing? I am calling Derek Jeter tonight and am going to try and talk him into coming back to play little league. "Come on dude, you could hit it out of the park every time you step up to the plate! Those 12 year olds won't know what hit them!"

jimpastorius · **Posted:** Thu Nov 02, 2006 4:41 pm

Stephen Westerfield wrote:

This makes absolutely no sense to me. If you are a novice and show up to your first event and beat the guy that's in first place in your respective open class and then don't move to open the next event.....how important was that precious wood to you in the first place? What the heck would posses you to stay in NOV? What am I missing? I am calling Derek Jeter tonight and am going to try and talk him into coming back to play little league. "Come on dude, you could hit it out of the park every time you step up to the plate! Those 12 year olds won't know what hit them!"

That is the same flaw with the YLN program. Last year, those people stayed novice all year and after 2-3 events and a school, were kicking the crap out of newbies. No one asked them to move up and none volunteered.

Why are we even debating novice, 90% of them never make it back for a third event. And it has nothing to do with wood, mentoring, open arms...it is because they don't like it or don't get it. Nothing is going to change that.

How about thinking of ways to thin the heard before an event. Identify the 3-5 people that will stick it out more than 3 events and can the rest. More runs for us :-)

steve remchak · **Posted:** Thu Nov 02, 2006 4:41 pm

Stephen Westerfield wrote:

MikeWhitney wrote:

scottjohnson wrote:

Gwen Baake wrote:

I’m sitting here trying to figure how one could carry points over from Nov to Open without sticking it to the people in Open. Say a Nov has 21 points after 4 races and moves to his Open class. What does that do to the guys who’ve competed against stronger competition in that Open class all year? It would give the Novice an advantage because he/she raced against different (weaker) competition to achieve the points. In theory, you’d have events with 2 first place points, 2 second place points, etc, etc, etc. What am I missing here? I’ll admit to being a dim bulb if someone will enlighten me.

We still class novices in a base class, right?

If I run Nov-GS and drive fast enough to beat David in GS then I get 1st place points in GS and David gets 2nd place points. We score it that way EVERY event. The novice will show up in the final results in GS open class.

We will also print a set of indexed "novice" results at the event and award trophies accordingly.

It appears that AXWare can already do this, so there isn't a large amount of work involved.

No one gets screwed here, hell the Novices could win two trophies (or more if they get FT... trophies as well).

The catch? You can't apply your novice points to "Tire" class. You can run novice 101 or novice 201, but not both.

Scott

I really like this idea.

This makes absolutely no sense to me. If you are a novice and show up to your first event and beat the guy that's in first place in your respective open class and then don't move to open the next event.....how important was that precious wood to you in the first place? What the heck would posses you to stay in NOV? What am I missing? I am calling Derek Jeter tonight and am going to try and talk him into coming back to play little league. "Come on dude, you could hit it out of the park every time you step up to the plate! Those 12 year olds won't know what hit them!"

not too likely to happen however eh Stephen. i like it because it gives the NOV a gauge of how they compare to both open class and the other novices. remember i am part of the "coddle the novice" party. :roll:

steve remchak · **Posted:** Thu Nov 02, 2006 4:44 pm

jimpastorius wrote:

Stephen Westerfield wrote:

This makes absolutely no sense to me. If you are a novice and show up to your first event and beat the guy that's in first place in your respective open class and then don't move to open the next event.....how important was that precious wood to you in the first place? What the heck would posses you to stay in NOV? What am I missing? I am calling Derek Jeter tonight and am going to try and talk him into coming back to play little league. "Come on dude, you could hit it out of the park every time you step up to the plate! Those 12 year olds won't know what hit them!"

That is the same flaw with the YLN program. Last year, those people stayed novice all year and after 2-3 events and a school, were kicking the crap out of newbies. No one asked them to move up and none volunteered.

Why are we even debating novice, 90% of them never make it back for a third event. And it has nothing to do with wood, mentoring, open arms...it is because they don't like it or don't get it. Nothing is going to change that.

How about thinking of ways to thin the heard before an event. Identify the 3-5 people that will stick it out more than 3 events and can the rest. More runs for us :-)

snipers in the woods, i like it Jim.

especially if they have to pull their saggin' pants up to cover the boxers.

Stephen Westerfield · **Posted:** Thu Nov 02, 2006 4:57 pm

jimpastorius wrote:

Stephen Westerfield wrote:

This makes absolutely no sense to me. If you are a novice and show up to your first event and beat the guy that's in first place in your respective open class and then don't move to open the next event.....how important was that precious wood to you in the first place? What the heck would posses you to stay in NOV? What am I missing? I am calling Derek Jeter tonight and am going to try and talk him into coming back to play little league. "Come on dude, you could hit it out of the park every time you step up to the plate! Those 12 year olds won't know what hit them!"

That is the same flaw with the YLN program. Last year, those people stayed novice all year and after 2-3 events and a school, were kicking the crap out of newbies. No one asked them to move up and none volunteered.

I don't mean to sound insensative here....novices have feelings too, but this doesn't matter a hill of beans to anyone except novices (although everyone has an opinion about it). I wouldn't have said boo if I wasn't an officer and felt obligated. I haven't heard any good words about any of the programs we have tried except the YLN. It gets my vote because it's simple, doesn't force the Novices to move on earlier than they are ready to, and requires no "extra" work from anyone else to keep track of them. I say nay to anything that requires T & S even a half second of extra thought to score them differently from any other class. If we were to even consider this crazy plan Scott mentioned, then anyone that runs faster PAX'd than someone running in X class should also take the X-class trophy home as well, right? Come on guys....let's not think too hard about this one. It just isn't necessary. Winning novice class means you did better than everyone else at your experience level (< 1 year) that day. Let's not confuse experience with skill here. If your skilled enough to beat people in open class, we have no reason to encourage you to stay in novice.

jimpastorius wrote:

Why are we even debating novice, 90% of them never make it back for a third event. And it has nothing to do with wood, mentoring, open arms...it is because they don't like it or don't get it. Nothing is going to change that.

I agree, we waste way too much time on this issue. Set it and forget it. It doesn't need to be revisited every year.

steve remchak · **Posted:** Thu Nov 02, 2006 5:21 pm

jimpastorius wrote:

Why are we even debating novice, 90% of them never make it back for a third event. And it has nothing to do with wood, mentoring, open arms...it is because they don't like it or don't get it. Nothing is going to change that.

I agree, we waste way too much time on this issue. Set it and forget it. It doesn't need to be revisited every year.[/quote]

well Mr. Westerfield, if i didn't waste my time debating this i might actually have to do some work. peeshah. :lol:

honestly, i care less about this issue every day. cynical old timer status here i come. :roll:

Stephen Westerfield · **Posted:** Thu Nov 02, 2006 5:23 pm

steve remchak wrote:

well Mr. Westerfield, if i didn't waste my time debating this i might actually have to do some work. peeshah. :lol:

Just don't let your boss catch you....hey wait, don't you own your company?

steve remchak · **Posted:** Thu Nov 02, 2006 5:35 pm

Stephen Westerfield wrote:

steve remchak wrote:

well Mr. Westerfield, if i didn't waste my time debating this i might actually have to do some work. peeshah. :lol: :lol:

Just don't let your boss catch you....hey wait, don't you own your company?

i need to fire that no working SOB.

Gwen Habenicht · **Posted:** Thu Nov 02, 2006 5:51 pm

steve remchak wrote:

Stephen Westerfield wrote:

steve remchak wrote:

well Mr. Westerfield, if i didn't waste my time debating this i might actually have to do some work. peeshah. :lol:

Just don't let your boss catch you....hey wait, don't you own your company?

i need to fire that no working SOB.

I'm suffering from the same thing today. I did actually want to get a hint about what next year might bring. What's a shame is that so very few of this year's Noobs come on line to say what they want once it's put out there.

Thanks, guys, for all the input. Tomorrow we work!

RobLupella · **Posted:** Thu Nov 02, 2006 5:54 pm

jimpastorius wrote:

Stephen Westerfield wrote:

This makes absolutely no sense to me. If you are a novice and show up to your first event and beat the guy that's in first place in your respective open class and then don't move to open the next event.....how important was that precious wood to you in the first place? What the heck would posses you to stay in NOV? What am I missing? I am calling Derek Jeter tonight and am going to try and talk him into coming back to play little league. "Come on dude, you could hit it out of the park every time you step up to the plate! Those 12 year olds won't know what hit them!"

That is the same flaw with the YLN program. Last year, those people stayed novice all year and after 2-3 events and a school, were kicking the crap out of newbies. No one asked them to move up and none volunteered.

Why are we even debating novice, 90% of them never make it back for a third event. And it has nothing to do with wood, mentoring, open arms...it is because they don't like it or don't get it. Nothing is going to change that.

How about thinking of ways to thin the heard before an event. Identify the 3-5 people that will stick it out more than 3 events and can the rest. More runs for us :-)

Actually, since this is becoming the dis the novices thread :wink:

once we identify the 3-5 people who will stay make the rest of them work double shifts so that we encourage the others to quit earlier and give us all more runs. Make sure it is at Laurinburg and that the work in the most red-ant infested part of the course :twisted:

Actually, the way Scott's idea would work is that they would stay in their open class but be listed as Novices. . If I remember right Jim P. floated this idea awhile back to get rid of a PAX (nov) class. The only difference would be that since AXware can apparently track all the novices they could then be segregated and given wood, or honorable mention, or a gold star or a trophy boy or girl too. If they wupp ass on their open class on a regular basis, then they can choose to get that much more prestigious trophy. IF they do that and are really a true novice, not just someone who has other relevant experience. (See John Andretti classed as a "rookie" busch driver in NASCRAP) then good for them they are a prodigy.

BTW if anyone does not want to waste time on this thread no one is holding a gun to your head making you participate, just don't do it :wink:

Richard Casto · **Posted:** Thu Nov 02, 2006 6:01 pm

Stephen Westerfield wrote:

jimpastorius wrote:

Why are we even debating novice, 90% of them never make it back for a third event. And it has nothing to do with wood, mentoring, open arms...it is because they don't like it or don't get it. Nothing is going to change that.

I agree, we waste way too much time on this issue. Set it and forget it. It doesn't need to be revisited every year.

This is the time honored tradition of using the off season to dredge up the same old topics. NOV is scheduled for this week. TIR class next week, PAX the week after. PRO/X dicussion hasn't been scheduled yet.

AdamBreakey · **Posted:** Thu Nov 02, 2006 6:22 pm

Richard Casto wrote:

This is the time honored tradition of using the off season to dredge up the same old topics. NOV is scheduled for this week. TIR class next week, PAX the week after. PRO/X dicussion hasn't been scheduled yet.

What about the topic of replacing the 'trophy magnets' with something a little better? I propose what we used down in FLA, a punch card that gives you two punches for 1st and 1 punch for any other trophy position. Fill up a card w/ six punches and get a free entry.

Oh, and with the NOV issue, keep them in NOV year round, make them run all together and shag their own cones, so we don't have to deal with it. :lol:

How about have the NOV's put on their own events on their own time?

adamb

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