Revisit *shudder* the Novice Class discussion

RobLupella · **Posted:** Thu Nov 02, 2006 10:56 am

steve remchak wrote:

ChuckNelson wrote:

Have a year long NOV season. This gives the new guy that is doing well(And making the commitment to the season) a chance to have his moment of glory. Limit the NOVs to one season, that way you eliminate the guys that want to sandbag for a hollow victory and plastic trophy.
I don't like PAX but how do you place guys in a bunch of very different cars against one another? A mediocre time in a Z06 is still going to be faster than the best time of a 240 Volvo wagon. There really is not another way to "compare" times*.

*Except, possibly, the CHUX system, I developed, based on dollar value of the car.

could i drive a Miata any faster than i can a Corvette? probably not.

i finished DFL to superior drivers last season in YLN class.

dammit, and i swore to myself i wasn't going to get involved in this futile arguement. again. :roll:

Yes, but can someone else drive a Miata faster than the vette...or vice versa? IF the course is designed well it will negate the advantage of one over the other. As with any handicapping system, PAX sucks it is never equal, but it is kind of like Democracy, it may suck, but until someone invents something better it is the best government around. IMHO so as not to offend Monarchists, Despots, and Anarchists

ChuckNelson · **Posted:** Thu Nov 02, 2006 11:56 am

How about giving repeat winners, like Jeb, the option to move out of NOV and take their points with them but they lose the chance to trophy in NOV?
That way he would not have a handicap and it would(might) make it closer for the others still in NOV who could still duke it out for first.
It really is not about the trophy, but what the trophy represents. After years of mountian bike racing and Trials comps with never a win, I can understand the desire for first.

Gwen Habenicht · **Posted:** Thu Nov 02, 2006 12:04 pm

I’m sitting here trying to figure how one could carry points over from Nov to Open without sticking it to the people in Open. Say a Nov has 21 points after 4 races and moves to his Open class. What does that do to the guys who’ve competed against stronger competition in that Open class all year? It would give the Novice an advantage because he/she raced against different (weaker) competition to achieve the points. In theory, you’d have events with 2 first place points, 2 second place points, etc, etc, etc. What am I missing here? I’ll admit to being a dim bulb if someone will enlighten me.

Stephen Westerfield · **Posted:** Thu Nov 02, 2006 12:07 pm

The KISS method has my vote. YLN. Period. Run it or don't. We are trying to make it far more complicated than it needs to be.

Gwen Habenicht · **Posted:** Thu Nov 02, 2006 12:09 pm

Stephen Westerfield wrote:

The KISS method has my vote. YLN. Period. Run it or don't. We are trying to make it far more complicated than it needs to be.

KISS it is! Stephen for VP!!!!! :cheer:

Off season threads are fun while they last!

Scott Johnson · **Posted:** Thu Nov 02, 2006 12:52 pm

Gwen Baake wrote:

I’m sitting here trying to figure how one could carry points over from Nov to Open without sticking it to the people in Open. Say a Nov has 21 points after 4 races and moves to his Open class. What does that do to the guys who’ve competed against stronger competition in that Open class all year? It would give the Novice an advantage because he/she raced against different (weaker) competition to achieve the points. In theory, you’d have events with 2 first place points, 2 second place points, etc, etc, etc. What am I missing here? I’ll admit to being a dim bulb if someone will enlighten me.

We still class novices in a base class, right?

If I run Nov-GS and drive fast enough to beat David in GS then I get 1st place points in GS and David gets 2nd place points. We score it that way EVERY event. The novice will show up in the final results in GS open class.

We will also print a set of indexed "novice" results at the event and award trophies accordingly.

It appears that AXWare can already do this, so there isn't a large amount of work involved.

No one gets screwed here, hell the Novices could win two trophies (or more if they get FT... trophies as well).

The catch? You can't apply your novice points to "Tire" class. You can run novice 101 or novice 201, but not both.

Scott

Wes Eargle · **Joined:** Mon Oct 27, 2003 9:47 am **Posts:** 3683

Scott, you've successfully crossed the streams of the THSCC forums two most beloved topics. :golfclap:

Scott Johnson · **Posted:** Thu Nov 02, 2006 12:59 pm

Wes Eargle wrote:

Scott, you've successfully crossed the streams of the THSCC forums two most beloved topics. :golfclap:

Learn to count. I've covered trophies, street tire class and novice class.

That's 3 topics.

Gwen Habenicht · **Posted:** Thu Nov 02, 2006 1:01 pm

Thanks, Scott,
:idea2:

OK, the light just got brighter. They STILL have to have the fastest time. I get it now.

My vote.......YLN. What Bernie and Stephen said.

Wes Eargle · **Joined:** Mon Oct 27, 2003 9:47 am **Posts:** 3683

scottjohnson wrote:

Wes Eargle wrote:

Scott, you've successfully crossed the streams of the THSCC forums two most beloved topics. :golfclap:

Learn to count. I've covered trophies, street tire class and novice class.

That's 3 topics.

Subtle. I offer you a laurel, and hearty handshake.

Chris Brown · **Posted:** Thu Nov 02, 2006 2:12 pm

Stephen Westerfield wrote:

The KISS method has my vote. YLN. Period. Run it or don't. We are trying to make it far more complicated than it needs to be.

x2

Richard Casto · **Posted:** Thu Nov 02, 2006 2:23 pm

scottjohnson wrote:

Gwen Baake wrote:

I’m sitting here trying to figure how one could carry points over from Nov to Open without sticking it to the people in Open. Say a Nov has 21 points after 4 races and moves to his Open class. What does that do to the guys who’ve competed against stronger competition in that Open class all year? It would give the Novice an advantage because he/she raced against different (weaker) competition to achieve the points. In theory, you’d have events with 2 first place points, 2 second place points, etc, etc, etc. What am I missing here? I’ll admit to being a dim bulb if someone will enlighten me.

We still class novices in a base class, right?

If I run Nov-GS and drive fast enough to beat David in GS then I get 1st place points in GS and David gets 2nd place points. We score it that way EVERY event. The novice will show up in the final results in GS open class.

We will also print a set of indexed "novice" results at the event and award trophies accordingly.

It appears that AXWare can already do this, so there isn't a large amount of work involved.

No one gets screwed here, hell the Novices could win two trophies (or more if they get FT... trophies as well).

The catch? You can't apply your novice points to "Tire" class. You can run novice 101 or novice 201, but not both.

Scott

I tossed out pretty much the same idea in 2003...

http://thscc.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?p=2219#2219

It isn't exactly KISS, but could be made to work.

MikeWhitney · **Joined:** Wed Aug 20, 2003 9:15 pm **Posts:** 4724

scottjohnson wrote:

Gwen Baake wrote:

I’m sitting here trying to figure how one could carry points over from Nov to Open without sticking it to the people in Open. Say a Nov has 21 points after 4 races and moves to his Open class. What does that do to the guys who’ve competed against stronger competition in that Open class all year? It would give the Novice an advantage because he/she raced against different (weaker) competition to achieve the points. In theory, you’d have events with 2 first place points, 2 second place points, etc, etc, etc. What am I missing here? I’ll admit to being a dim bulb if someone will enlighten me.

We still class novices in a base class, right?

If I run Nov-GS and drive fast enough to beat David in GS then I get 1st place points in GS and David gets 2nd place points. We score it that way EVERY event. The novice will show up in the final results in GS open class.

We will also print a set of indexed "novice" results at the event and award trophies accordingly.

It appears that AXWare can already do this, so there isn't a large amount of work involved.

No one gets screwed here, hell the Novices could win two trophies (or more if they get FT... trophies as well).

The catch? You can't apply your novice points to "Tire" class. You can run novice 101 or novice 201, but not both.

Scott

I really like this idea.

Ryan Holton · **Posted:** Thu Nov 02, 2006 2:54 pm

Here is a question....

How many trophies do we give out to novices at your average points event. Im not asking how many positions we give, Im asking how many actually show up to get the damn thing. Very few.... :roll:

WHATEVER we do it will be SIMPLE! Moving points back and forth amongst classes aint simple.

Vincent Keene · **Posted:** Thu Nov 02, 2006 3:00 pm

Ryan Holton wrote:

How many trophies do we give out to novices at your average points event. Im not asking how many positions we give, Im asking how many actually show up to get the damn thing. Very few.... :roll:

As the "trophy guy" I can tell you this is very true. For all the fuss about Novices wanting trophies very few of them stay after the event long enough to be awarded one.

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