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If I can make it to that Event I would be glad to be a worker cordinator


David - Who thinks WC is not that hard of a job and if we were not pregnanat would have volunteered to do it this year.[/quote]

sorry david, already have a replacement for the next event.

the wc job isn't hard at all...i think everyone should volunteer.

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05 MCS

Run 1B (mid-pack in line), work 2A, run 3B (first car in line) and you are loaded going home early with the best possible course conditions. If you want to head home earlier, run 3A and you are on the road with only about 1/2 the event completed. With AAO, you are there for at least 3/4 of the participant's runs. Just trying to help you out a little Aaron

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Jim Pastorius
2008 Silverado VortecMax
1992 Camaro CMC#92
2002 BMW R1150R

2009 3rd Place CMC Mid-Atlantic Championship
2009 CMC Hyperfest Winner

Thanks Jim. I'll try that one at Danville. - AB

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'14 Toyota Sequoia Platinum 4WD
Super Westerfield Bros - '93 Integra - LeChump Du Jour
STX 93 - Scion FR-S

Since many people feel that AAO will be the end of AX or even civilization as we know it...I am going to toss this theory out on why things seem to run smoother with AAO.

If you look to the split grid, there are 60 cars lined up (which makes having a large enough grid area tough). Even though those cars make the same number of runs as opposed to AAO grid of 30, AAO looks less daunting.

Everyone gets faster on runs 2-4 regardless of which format, so it appears that the gird is going quicker. The slow first runs are spread across the entire day.

Additionally, the event gets into a flow, T&S deals with only 30 cars instead of 60 cars. Grid only has to mark off 30 cars as opposed to 60 cars. The starter becomes familiar with the cars and can easily adjust luanch intervals.

The question was were the two smoothest running events G'ville and NCAC?

Perception is everything ... "not everything that counts can be counted, and not everything that can be counted counts" -albert einstein.

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Jim Pastorius
2008 Silverado VortecMax
1992 Camaro CMC#92
2002 BMW R1150R

2009 3rd Place CMC Mid-Atlantic Championship
2009 CMC Hyperfest Winner

Here's a stab at it Chuck. In our current configuration (fixed run groups) are not equal, there are more folks in prepared and modified than in the stock/ tire/x/ladies group. So before we ever start workers in runs 2&4 are already in short supply. Add to that the confusion caused by A&B grids, especially for novices, and we now have people comming when they're called up to twenty minutes later, after the last car in group 1 or 3 has run. At Sanford we had to stop the event to get the six people on two work stations out to work, more than half of them said they were still running when we called them. Its a pure T fact most people don't understand fixed run group/ A&B grid. And to go a little further if you question ten novices on this subect I doubt that half will know what your talking about. If you put people in numbered groups as in AAO and run them twice to get your 2+2 run format, it is easier to understand. Then no one would have to work immediately after they've run, there would always be one run group between run and work or work and run. Thats why I see AAO working smoother than 2+2. Its just a more simple way of doing things. At least from the work coordinators position and the folks who are out there working. No one at either the Greenville event or at the NCAC was out of step with the work order and thats why they ran as smooth as they did. Along with great courses with low, cone counts and reruns

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2004 C5(415whp,390ft/lbs),
1997C5,1997Trans Am, 1986 C4,
1990 Miata, 1976 MGB,1997 Protege, 1989 MR2

Don't worry David I'm sure there'll be a WC position available for you next year.. You are volunteering right?

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2004 C5(415whp,390ft/lbs),
1997C5,1997Trans Am, 1986 C4,
1990 Miata, 1976 MGB,1997 Protege, 1989 MR2

This has been a very interesting thread. I work a little and come back to my office to see what else has been posted.

Another thing that I think made G’ville and NCAC run more smoothly in regard to work assignments is assigning work stations when you report (after the horn blows) to the WC. That accomplishes a couple of things; it keeps those of us who have figured out to “sign up early” for the best work stations from doing so. It also keeps the workers from having to go to the WC twice, once to sign up and again when you report to work. At G’ville and NCAC you just went once, got assigned and off to work you went. Side bar to that-it makes the WC’s job less of a hassle since “signing up” and getting checked off are only done once. Anytime there’s less places to be at a certain time, one feels things are going more smoothly.

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I almost forgot Auditing. Audit only has to do 30 drivers at a time. And with the AAO format, the last heat auditing requires 1/2 the time. So in theory, even more people are around for trophies.

Yes, I know people will complain that they do not have time to pack their cars before trophies. I guess every coin has two-sides

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Jim Pastorius
2008 Silverado VortecMax
1992 Camaro CMC#92
2002 BMW R1150R

2009 3rd Place CMC Mid-Atlantic Championship
2009 CMC Hyperfest Winner

I think there are pros and cons to each setup. That said, the *big* thing we should do, IMHO, is stay with 2+2 instead of 2+3, NO MATTER WHAT. That keeps those work assignments the same length at least. I think *that* is the biggest deal.

If there's time for fun runs, let people who want to run them run them. Me, I'd rather stay with 2+2 and be loaded to go home, particularly since I usually work last heat audit anyway.

I guess I'll never understand this anti-SCCA sentiment, either. Heck, there can be a fairly annoying variation in National events since they are mostly "run" by regions, and region events can vary *wildly*. Many run better than THSCC events, some run worse. But I have yet to encounter anything evil enough to have bred this TH attitude against the SCCA. Sure, TH doesn't have to be like SCCA, but I don't think there's any reason to actively avoid it, either.

I'm sure Emmie would hate the WDCR events...they let you work and run either morning or afternoon and there's no crossover between them. Half the "club" is there in the morning, the other half in the afternoon, and from the sound of it there isn't a lot of overlap. I can see her point on the social aspect, but I haven't heard anyone who doesn't like the way WDCR runs (of the people who run there). Obviously they do AAO, and they push more cars through a single day of autocross than any other "local" outfit, so it must be efficient...

All that said, i still say it should be up to event chairs. If they want split, we run split. If they want AAO, we run AAO. All I ask is that split is standardized to 2+2 (with the *potential* for fun runs, sure) and everyone is told well ahead of time which format will be run and if AAO, it would be nice to have advanced warning on who runs when.


--Donnie

So you're saying I'd only have to encounter *half* of the drivers. Hm. Can I pick the half?

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The person with too many names...
Mary E./ME/Emmie Fisher/Daniel/Daniel-Fisher
(& some others not suitable for posting!).
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That's it mister, Im on the verge of revoking your membership!!

Honestly, I think the bad blood is very deep and old in nature. I actually got involved with the Cape Fear portion of the NCR SCCA and the hate is mutual for SOME. I know the crusty old guy who used to be "the man" in NCR AX would do the exact opposite if THSCC was mentioned.

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02 Focus SVT
STF 9

That's an attitude I have NEVER understood, and I've run across it with about every club in NC. WHO CARES which club "invented" something, we should ALL learn from each other and combine the best from each to produce the best events PERIOD! To paraphrase: Too many egos spoils the events IMHO.

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SPIN or WIN!
there's no glory for going slow.

If you want someone to blame for the AAO success at both Greenville and Greensboro, I know where the fingers should be pointed.

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Has no responsibility whatsoever.

Sorry, can't help point to the old H&T issue I scanned earlier this year -- see paragraph 4: http://thscc.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=4832
Of course this was only 23 years ago...maybe by 2029 this issue will be figured out for good.

I personally see the positive sides of both and am neutral on the subject.

Chuck

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Current stable:
2019 BMW M2 Competition slicktop 6MT
2011 BMW M3 sedan slicktop 6MT
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1975 CanAm 125MX2

Yes if I have the time, which I will probably not next year, but maybe the year after that.


On other thing that does need to be look at with AAO format. If we are running at site with a long course and a lot of work positions, you may not have enough workers to man those posistions in an AAO format with 4 run groups. We ran into a that issue when we did 4 run groups but 2-2 runs at the first RBC Event, we had a few heats where there were not a enough workers.

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David Teague
2015 Lexus IS 250c
1994 Honda Del Sol HS 39
2009 Dodge Journey R/T
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