THSCC Forums

Why is AAO better in this situation?

Maybe I'm missing something here, but all AAO really does as far as how well the event runs is make logistics easier for the event organizers. Nothing inherent in the format makes for a shorter event.

As Brad said, launch interval rules all. No matter what the format. 2+2 or 4+4 or n+n or AAO.

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Mike Whitney
whit32@gmail.com, 919-454-5445
V10, V8, V8t, I6, I6, V6, F4t, I4, I4, I4, I4, I2, 1, 1

Why do we want to make the logistics harder on the event organizers??

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2004 C5(415whp,390ft/lbs),
1997C5,1997Trans Am, 1986 C4,
1990 Miata, 1976 MGB,1997 Protege, 1989 MR2

I've co-chaired a bunch of events, never used the AAO format, and haven't noticed anything extremely hard about the job - except for making copies of the damn course map.

In what ways does the AAO format make it easier? Is it just by simplifying the run groups, or is there more? (never really thought about it, and don't feel like thinking about it right now ) Whose jobs do these advantages affect, and how much easier is it for them? If somebody's getting killed by not doing the AAO thing, then maybe we need more people doing that job when we don't do AAO.

The AAO format is simpler, less confusing and easier to understand. Plus there is more down time for competitors to relax and socialize. Those reasons give the appearance that the event runs smoother and faster.

As for people leaving early, please look at the B line in the afternoon runs...they are always shorter than A. Usually about 1/2 as long. Why, cause people want to get home. The format will not deter or encourage people to stay.

The social aspect for AAO is far more beneficial to old and new. You get to spend a lot more time in grid with people. This afords the novices time to get to know people first-hand. The split does not afford this opportunity as much.

You actually have more down time in AAO where you are not going from one place to another or having to get ready for work. For example, you run 2 and work 4th (each heat is 90 minutes long). You are guaranteed 3 hours of time to socialize and relax. Subtract 5 minutes moving your car to grid for heat 4. With a more relaxed environment, things appear to run smoother and faster.

When you are driving, things appear to be very, very fast. You have the rush going for the whole period of 4-5 runs. Your brain is working, your reflexes on are high for a far longer period than simply two runs and you are done. So when you are driving, that 90 minutes really appear to be about 30 minutes.

That is a major reason why so many clubs and the big boys run this kind of format.

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Jim Pastorius
2008 Silverado VortecMax
1992 Camaro CMC#92
2002 BMW R1150R

2009 3rd Place CMC Mid-Atlantic Championship
2009 CMC Hyperfest Winner

simpler, less confusing, ok, I'll give you that. Easier to understand, well, that's just redundant


Nope, I'm on site for 9ish hours and run for about 4 minutes either way. Granted, I may spend an extra 10 minutes moving my car to and from grid, but that's negligible in the grand scheme of things. And in our split format, I don't have a 3 hour "off time", but to me that's a GOOD thing.


I don't see this reasoning. I think the lack of time to talk and get pointers between the 2nd and 3rd run is far worse for novices than any gain from a single longer interval with the same people.


Ok, but this isn't a national event, and we're not talking golf here. I prefer my day to feel like a day, not 30 minutes of climatic adrenaline preceeded and followed by sitting on my bum. But maybe that's just me.....


As I stated before, I think AAO has it's place in big, complex events. I think it all comes down to what charcteristics of a LOCAL event each person thinks are good, and it's obvious that there are at least 2 camps here using many of the same arguments for and against AAO.

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Dustin Fredrickson
-- I'm a nobody --

I don't really mind either one of them. I like the aao thing because I'll do all my runs back to back, and don't have to worry about conditions changing immensely between first and last run (unless I'm in the first run group ). I like when it's split up because I'll get runs in the morning and runs in the afternoon, instead of getting all my runs at one time and sitting around socializing the rest of the day. Neither one is really better, they're just different.

This is one of the things that's so cool about rallyx - you get all of your runs at once (although the course condition usually changes dramatically), and you get it twice in one day, on two different courses!

Hopefully we'll be bringing that format to tarmac in a few months...

are you paving your Mom's field Kevin? sweet!!!!!

What is the first experience a novice has with THSCC...trying to figure out when to work and when to run. What is the most confusing thing that THSCC has? The run/work format. Great first impression. What has happened at almost every THSCC event this year? The people working the afternoon (when it is the hottest) work longer than the people in morning. Who represents the largest percentage of these workers? Novices, cause the experienced people have the non-course jobs and know to work early. Great final impression of THSCC.

All those in favor of the split format should step up and sign up for the afternoon work groups. Have any problem with that? Let the novices work early.

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Jim Pastorius
2008 Silverado VortecMax
1992 Camaro CMC#92
2002 BMW R1150R

2009 3rd Place CMC Mid-Atlantic Championship
2009 CMC Hyperfest Winner

I agree this is a problem, but this is a problem with the workers, not run groups.

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In need of car.

Guess that's why we have over 300 members and had the most drivers at the NCAC.



Nope. Done it more times than you can count.

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The person with too many names...
Mary E./ME/Emmie Fisher/Daniel/Daniel-Fisher
(& some others not suitable for posting!).
Help support our habits; BUY http://virginiabreeze.us !

does AXWARE have the capability to assign work assignments? seems to me that would simplify one very aggravating aspect of the worker coordinators job. and not always penalize afternoon (novice) workers. then it would simply be a matter of policing the run group.

or the occasional 5th run could just be a no go anymore. set it at 4 and be done with it.

has there ever been 5 run groups? 25 cars each +/-

so follow my math here, existing system = 130 entrants @ 4 runs total 520 runs divided by 4 groups is 130 runs per group.

5 run groups = 130 entrants @ 4 runs total 520 runs divided by 5 groups is 104 runs per group.

as 104 runs per group would take less time, the extra time needed for the 5th run could possibly be made up in grid.

that being said, the installation of flux capacitors into all participants cars and enough run-off room to achieve 88mph we might even have time for a sixth run.

sorry, slow news day. how much longer until football season?

Sounds like yopu've been fluxed by one of your capacitors.

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2004 C5(415whp,390ft/lbs),
1997C5,1997Trans Am, 1986 C4,
1990 Miata, 1976 MGB,1997 Protege, 1989 MR2

As soon as I get you to drive a Ford and vote with a right hand vs a left hand, you'll be perfectly indoctrinated into the Eargleosophy (tm).

Seriously, though, the past three autocrosses have been a revelation that this can be much more fun than work. Three out of five run groups when you *can't* be working or driving forces one to relax, and I'm a fan, I'm not going to lie to you. And I'm just a lowly guy that hasn't learned to stop volunteering. Maybe I should just sack up and put myself on a ballot for something bigger.

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Has no responsibility whatsoever.

The most confusing thing to a Novice is Grid A/B. Especially a 2 driver car. Next is the Work/Run group. Those 2 items together were where we got the most questions on a regular basis.

I did AAO a couple of times with other clubs. I liked it, but I also like the split format. Let the event chairs pick which format they want to run. Or in the case of a site like Greenville let it dictate the format. Why does it have to be one or the other all the time? Same with stock class always runs 1+3. Why not alternate every event? That will also change the work shift you can sign up for.

As far as life is not fair for Novices. Well we all went through that. There are many incentives for you to get to the site early. Work order is just one of them. More courses walks, possible early work shift, park in the front of pit area, get to registration and tech faster, etc... It shouldn't take long to catch on.

This club is not SCCA and only a minor % of the membership is concerned about making it look like Nationals or SCCA clubs. We have the flexibility to do all of the above. If it is communicated in the event info in a timely manner then why not change it up a bit.

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http://www.greywinds.com

Since we have grid 1A, 1B, 2A, 2B, why not just call it what it really is: grid 1,2,3,4?

That might end some of the confusion.

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In need of car.