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Assuming a very experienced and fairly successful autocrosser who always looks ahead, what are the primary potential improvement areas from an EVO phase 1? Would these benefits also apply if the "school" car and grip level was VERY different from the student's normal autocross ride?

Also, I understand that one aspect of the Phase 1 school is "tight versus open" lines. Are the typical courses large enough that there is room to actually choose lines (rather than just distance to cones)?

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Dick Rasmussen

FS 50 2018 Mustang GT

Hey Chuck - FYI - they no longer do segment times in their Phase 1 schools. They now rely on the local host club to provide the timing and scoring. The plus to this is that you now get immediate feedback as to what time you ran on each run (didn't get that when using the Evo timing system) the downside is of course not being able to see improvements in specific areas of the course.

Also, Stephen I have been to many of the split phase 1 phase2 day schools and never had it where people came and left part way through the day. I have only had it where it was the same group from start to finish.

I want Tarheel to sponsor one of the new schools where they use the DL-1 data logger to analyze every run. Too cool!!!! How about two schools going on at once -- one side being the Phase 1 and 2 1/2 day program and the other being the new GPS DL-1 school? No matter what you decide, I can guarantee that I will be there - thanks to my good fortune/luck.

edit: I voted for the later date in hopes of getting it in Danville

Adam Breakey <-- graduate of more than 25 days of Evo schools and counting!

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Adam Breakey
Founder - www.autocrossforum.com
SS 75 Red(isfasterthanyellow) Z06

BTW...I am not ignoring this thread...but just focusing on NCAC this week. As soon as I get to talk to Jean, I will give you guys an update.

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Stephen Westerfield
2009 Infiniti M35 | 2007 Honda Fit Sport | 2005 Ford Mustang GT |2000 GMC Sierra |1992 Acura Integra LS | Super Westerfield Bros Acura Integra

Dick, just my 2 cents, for someone like you (i.e., National Champion), I'd say that the Phase 1 would likely be much less helpful for you than the average driver. Other than seat time, the biggest benefit could potentially be having a top level driver/instructor (e.g., Aro, Sharp, Strano, Johnson, Salerno) maybe point some some subtle techniques you could work on *and* being able to pick-up some things by watching them drive your car.

FWIW, I hadn't taken an Evo school in 5+ years and took the Phase 2 last year at Danville to help me get acclaimated to a Miata again. Also, I suspected that I'd picked up some bad habits from drivng the 2004 (red) Spyder, more specifically that my line of vision had dropped due to a lack of confidence in the previous car. I thought it was helpful and glad I did it. Both Dave Newman and Jinx Jordan were good instructors and pointed some some flaws in my driving that I was not aware of and confirmed some of my other suspicions. Most beneficial was spending 10 minutes with Tim after the school taking a few pops at the course and he got right to the chase, pointed out one major basic flaw and *bang* I picked up a huge amount of time - he's really amazing.

So, I'd say if you're looking for some seat time and hoping to pick up a few helpful tidbits, then doing a Phase I/II later this year would be good. But, a driver at your level is likely to get much more out of the Extreme School. I think that school is going to be so popular that there will not be enough Tim to go around and it will be hard to get a booking later next year.

TIRE WEAR COMMENT - I know that Stephen mentioned it in his summary, so this is just a reminder about something we all know about - tire wear at an Evo School in Laurinburg will be severe on R compound tires. If Laurinburg is used for an Evo school, drivers may want to either run street tires for the whole day or at least for the first half of the school when you are still shaking some rust off. One run at Laurinburg seems to be like two (or more) at most asphalt sites.

Eric

Eric,

Thanks for the excellent input. I wonder how much of driving a stock Mustang on street tires would translate to driving a single seat formula car on slicks? Probably would need to watch someone Tim's size drive the car (Sam won't fit).

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Dick Rasmussen

FS 50 2018 Mustang GT

Dick, I think with your level of experience, you should inquire about doing the Extreme school with the formula car. Assuming you can get the AX22 data logger physically mounted somewhere and its antenna to stick somewhere reasonable, I think you could still learn a lot by doing that (since while you can't have passengers you can at least both drive and still compare data). Oh, it needs a 12V cigarette plug, too (though I believe Tim is working on getting a battery pack he could use for it, but in a formula car it may be easier to wire up a plug temporarily than it is to tie down the battery pack).

Email Tim and ask him what he thinks about doing that. PM me if you need his email address.


--Donnie

Donnie,

Thanks!

FYI what are the power demands for the data logger? My FF has NO alternator and only about a 17 AH battery to run the ignition. Given the space constraints (think shrink wrapped body/frame around small driver and engine/trans ) some creativity and/or body work removal for the school would be needed.

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Dick Rasmussen

FS 50 2018 Mustang GT

Power requirements for it are pretty tiny, but in that case it may be better for Tim to use an external battery of his own.


--Donnie

In trying to get this organized, I really had a split crowd in regards to when to have this. Some folks were interested in making it happen this year, and some agreed that waiting til next year would be better so that you didn't have 3 months to sit on what you just learned waiting for the next autocross. I had to take the side of those pushing for next year....it just made more sense to me to wait until the spring when everyone would have a chance to use thier new found skills. So stay tuned. It will happen...but is going to be next February or March.

Oh...and what I am hoping for is to schedule both a Phase 1 and Phase 2 school going on at the same time in Danville.

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Stephen Westerfield
2009 Infiniti M35 | 2007 Honda Fit Sport | 2005 Ford Mustang GT |2000 GMC Sierra |1992 Acura Integra LS | Super Westerfield Bros Acura Integra

Oh sure -- wait until my free year(s) of Evo schools runs out, then have one locally.

I guess I will have to enter the raffle again this year. I wonder if Jean will let me do that again?!?!?!?

adamb

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Adam Breakey
Founder - www.autocrossforum.com
SS 75 Red(isfasterthanyellow) Z06

Sure wish we could swing two days. . . Phase 1 Day, Phase 2 Day.

I supect I'd take both.

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Not spectacular just decent.
I'm not sure what I'm driving.
Maybe an ITR in DS.
Or half-assed STX prepped 330.

I suppose I can see what I can work out. That would only raise the cost though as we would have to rent out a site for the enitre weekend just for that (and it seems most folks don't want to do it at our "cheap" site...L'burg). Then we would have to have the autocross that month another weekend.

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Stephen Westerfield
2009 Infiniti M35 | 2007 Honda Fit Sport | 2005 Ford Mustang GT |2000 GMC Sierra |1992 Acura Integra LS | Super Westerfield Bros Acura Integra

I think Jean will put you on her banned list. Now if another Breakey were to win, that would be OK.

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Todd Breakey
STS 42 - 1992 Sunburst Miata
Dammit!
"You souldn't play leap frog with a porcupine. You might get hurt." - Eliza

That's right. Makes more sense.

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Not spectacular just decent.
I'm not sure what I'm driving.
Maybe an ITR in DS.
Or half-assed STX prepped 330.

I still have a Chris Schimmel GC that I need to use. I wonder if I'll be able to get that in this year

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Has no responsibility whatsoever.