Heck why not: should TIR be dropped? AKA cheater tire thread

BriceJohnson · **Joined:** Thu Apr 13, 2006 7:33 am **Posts:** 2230

David Teague wrote:

if you have done it fore more than a year you are not causual about it.

not true, I have been autocrossing for several years, on and off, thats the only reason I'm not running novice class, I trophied in my integra like 4 years ago. For some of us though, we just show up every once in a while, we don't plan our lives around it. I don't in any way mean to imply that there is anything wrong with being as committed as you and others are, but everyone has their own level of commitment to the sport, and their own financial burdens, and I think the classes offered should reflect that.

David Spratte · **Posted:** Tue Jul 25, 2006 1:32 pm

Richard Casto wrote:

Jason Mauldin wrote:

On a serious note, who stole Jim P's keyboard?

If I had been drinking something when I read that, it would have been squirting out my nose for sure!

Oh, IMHO, this thread seems to be on the edge of being locked. Lets continue to keep it friendly.

You can't lock before Page 6, Nostracasto.

Richard Casto · **Posted:** Tue Jul 25, 2006 1:35 pm

Quote:

...and go run STS w/ Jeb.

Jeb mentioned to me a bit this weekend about feeling like he was pushed out of NOV earlier than he would have liked. But after riding with him, he is doing the right stuff and is getting faster. He ran a 37.8x (3rd in STS and only 7/10ths behind Mitch and myself) and considering how long he has been doing this, I think that was excellent.

Richard Casto · **Posted:** Tue Jul 25, 2006 1:36 pm

David Spratte wrote:

Richard Casto wrote:

Jason Mauldin wrote:

On a serious note, who stole Jim P's keyboard?

If I had been drinking something when I read that, it would have been squirting out my nose for sure!

Oh, IMHO, this thread seems to be on the edge of being locked. Lets continue to keep it friendly.

You can't lock before Page 6, Nostracasto.

No, I gotta post enough fluff to make sure we reach page 6 (hey! Here we are!) Then I am going to lock it.

Seriously, I think the thread is redeeming itself.

Bernie Baake · **Posted:** Tue Jul 25, 2006 1:40 pm

BriceJohnson wrote:

Bernie Baake wrote:

Brice,
I don't understand, You've bought an extra set of wheels and tires to autoX on, you've bought a CAI for the car. So you can run in TIR?????...Where is it that you're saving money? Why didn't you take the money for the CAI and put it toward R compounds added to the money you've spent for the "autox tires and wheels" you could have had what you claim is needed for running in the stock classes, R compounds... I don't understand :whoknows:

Are you whining b/c you finished second and there weren't enough people in your class to get a trophy for 2nd? Win first, that will eliminate that problem, and let me run in a class that is appropriate for my car/priorities.

Brice if you feel that what I wrote was flaming you then you really haven't seen the ball since the kick off. To help you along with your accusation for whining and needing you to trophy.Look at last months Sanford autoX results. Mary didn't run, I moved to asp with the vette.. winning a trophy with no one in the class would be like winning one with you in the class no race at all AH.

Jason Mauldin · **Posted:** Tue Jul 25, 2006 1:41 pm

BriceJohnson wrote:

it. I don't in any way mean to imply that there is anything wrong with being as committed as you and others are, but everyone has their own level of commitment to the sport, and their own financial burdens, and I think the classes offered should reflect that.

Let's look at it from another point of view.

Why does the sport have to support that? If a person has a financial burden that doesn't allow them to compete at the top of their class, why can't they just accept that and do the best that they can, in their proper class?

BTW, I really think the financial argument is bogus. It's your priorities that are limiting you, not your financials. I'm willing to bet that my DSP car cost less then your stock Mazda3.

David Teague · **Posted:** Tue Jul 25, 2006 1:41 pm

BriceJohnson wrote:

I shouldn't have used that word, you are correct. But someone who spends their money in the specific interest of winning a class at autocross differs from my priorities. I was more making that statement to show that few people like this exist, didn't mean to insult the few who do/did, my bad.

Which was exactlay what Wes whas trying to point out to you when you told him to get bent... there are more than a few people who will go out and spend extra money to gain an edge in TIR class.

BriceJohnson wrote:

I just think that if you are specifically going to spend money to improve your standing at autocross, you'd be better off to spend it on mods that would move you towards the STS route or the open class route, few are focused on winning TIR like that, b/c those mods don't necessarily improve the car in everyday driving, at least not as cost effectively as mods that take you down the STS/open class route.

Most of the mods which make the car fun on street, are mods that are acceptable in ST* which is why those class ended up being created. Which really what the issue that we are discussing. Now that thier are Three ST class's do we really need tire, the Class is smaller than it has been in past years when there would be 25 to 30 cars in that class. No we seem to be adveraging around 15.

BriceJohnson wrote:

right, and I'm arguing that it should still exist for those who want to run a stock car on street tires, since no class exists for those drivers to run competitively otherwise, and I think this represents a lot of people who shouldn't be excluded from competition.

Once again you can compete just fine in any open class. My Car is underpreped compaired to Bernies for example. He has a Cat back, V710's and koni's. I have Old Hoosiers, and Koni's, his car is a better auto-cross car than the del sol, however I still won HS this weekend, why? Well Bernie has only been doing this for a little over a year, and I have been at it on and off since 1998. (No offence Bernie

).

Then Again maybe Brice is our "Cole"

.

Bernie Baake · **Posted:** Tue Jul 25, 2006 1:45 pm

None Taken David,
But there's a mini in your rear veiw mirror, and he's getting closer.

BriceJohnson · **Joined:** Thu Apr 13, 2006 7:33 am **Posts:** 2230

Everything I've said has been so twisted and picked apart, let me try once more to crystalize why I think TIR should still exist, I apologize to anyone I've offended, I didn't mean to step on anyones toes (except Wes's, but I feel that was in retaliation and thus justified). Financial considerations aside, I think there should exist a class for someone who has a stock car on street tires. I have reasons for why I have proceeded with my car as I have, some of them are autocross related and some aren't, lets not try and pick apart my situation, as that misses the point. Its not about my specific situation, it never should be about one persons specific situation, but about what works best for most. Howevev, to put a stock car on street tires in a non-competitive class is to exclude a large portion of the auto-enthusiast population. I agree we don't need a class for every strange set of mods that exists, sometimes, you'll be kind of between classes, and thats just the rules, a stock car on street tires is far from a strange combination of mods, thats how cars come.

David Teague · **Posted:** Tue Jul 25, 2006 1:50 pm

Bernie Baake wrote:

None Taken David,
But there's a mini in your rear veiw mirror, and he's getting closer.

No doubt no doubt!!

David Teague · **Posted:** Tue Jul 25, 2006 1:54 pm

BriceJohnson wrote:

to put a stock car on street tires in a non-competitive class is to exclude a large portion of the auto-enthusiast population.

It is COLE!!!!... (inside sccaforums joke Brince nothing against you...)

Brice wrote:

I agree we don't need a class for every strange set of mods that exists, sometimes, you'll be kind of between classes, and thats just the rules, a stock car on street tires is far from a strange combination of mods, thats how cars come.

Nothing is stoping you from competing in an Open class, Cars are classed on the potential, with minimal mods, eveyone can run any tire they want, being competitve is a different issue all togther.

BriceJohnson · **Joined:** Thu Apr 13, 2006 7:33 am **Posts:** 2230

David Teague wrote:

Cars are classed on the potential, with minimal mods, eveyone can run any tire they want, being competitve is a different issue all togther.

tires clearly have something to do with it, as there would be no reason for the existence of the ST* classes either if they didn't matter. . .

Wes Eargle · **Joined:** Mon Oct 27, 2003 9:47 am **Posts:** 3683

David Teague wrote:

Nothing is stopping you from competing in an Open class

http://www.logusz.com/~yupislyr/4/thisplan.wav

David Teague · **Posted:** Tue Jul 25, 2006 2:09 pm

BriceJohnson wrote:

David Teague wrote:

Cars are classed on the potential, with minimal mods, eveyone can run any tire they want, being competitve is a different issue all togther.

tires clearly have something to do with it, as there would be no reason for the existence of the ST* classes either if they didn't matter. . .

ST* classes have nothing to do with how cars are classed in stock, Street Prepared , Preapared or Mpdified. Each class's cars a classed on thier own merit in each level or prep, and to be honsest once again the tires you run are still do not detrmin how you car is classed. I wish GH was still a member as he could explain it in much more detail.

STS was not created so people could run street tires. The orginal idea was to have some place for all of the slight modifed cars that showed up at sevral regions events, that were not preped to SP rules but more than Stock, and they were running what ever the "Hot" street tire was at the time. IT was a way to reach out to the Tuner Market.

jimpastorius · **Posted:** Tue Jul 25, 2006 2:12 pm

Jason Mauldin wrote:

On a serious note, who stole Jim P's keyboard?

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Heck why not: should TIR be dropped? AKA cheater tire thread

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