Heck why not: should TIR be dropped? AKA cheater tire thread

Wes Eargle · **Joined:** Mon Oct 27, 2003 9:47 am **Posts:** 3683

Tis about that time again.

Due to the prevalence of spectacular "street" tires (that almost caused me to wreck Sunday night on the drive home) and the mixed assortment of PAXes that exist within regular participants of TIR, is it time to make this class go away?

We have had a decline in stock class participation as well as other classes, and these would be easily filled either by current TIR drivers or diverting them to their appropriate ST* class.

Discuss.

George Bright · **Posted:** Mon Jul 24, 2006 7:19 pm

Richard Casto wrote:

Ok, this started in this other thread....

http://www.thsccforums.com/viewtopic.ph ... 5&start=46

...and I received a few items that should be added to this list. So that way if anyone wants to start a flame war, they should pick one of the following topics...

6. Any PAX discussion (obligatory "PAX SUCKS!" comment)
7. Any TIR, NOV, X, LAD class discussion.

14. "Cheater Tire" (aka Tire like Falken Azenis that fit the rules for TIR class but shouldn't be used as you are a cheater if you do)

Enjoy!!

Oh S**T here we go again.

steve remchak · **Posted:** Mon Jul 24, 2006 7:22 pm

i vote no.

Chris Brown · **Posted:** Mon Jul 24, 2006 7:32 pm

i guess i'd have to hear from some TIR guys before finalizing my position...back be for all the ST* classes, i liked the idea of TIR b/c it gave the novices somewhere to go after they weren't novices anymore...i guess the ST* classes can now fit that bill just about as well as TIR.

this could all be solved by letting all TIR drivers take a hit from the r-compound-crack-pipe during fun runs :shock:

DickRasmussen · **Posted:** Mon Jul 24, 2006 7:58 pm

I have no dog in this fight. I ran F Stock with full tread 320 treadwear rated tires rather than deal with an index class but that was personal preference. I must say that the drive home in the rain was sure relaxed though. :wink:

The primary advantage of the ST and TIR class tires is that they last longer at competive tread depths than R tires and maybe even normal high performance real street tires.

Autocrossers have been street driving on "minimal rain tread" tires for decades (ask me how I know :lol:

. I used to buy almost bald take off tires to autocross on.)

Since most "real street tires" autocross better with less tread, they will be used until cords show by many people . . . even if there are no "budget" considerations.

That means that even if they are safe in the rain when new they will NOT be safe when they become well worn . . . and probably faster.

Dustin Fredrickson · **Posted:** Mon Jul 24, 2006 9:39 pm

Wes Eargle wrote:

..."street" tires (that almost caused me to wreck Sunday night on the drive home)

hijack

Good god aint that the truth. clapped out Azenis 215's at 50% tread do NOT make good "is-this-a-friggin-monsoon?" tire. Rarely do I have to call my wife, driving the 3 ton AWD beast following 15' behind me, to tell her to back off becuase I was already skating around the road enough doing 5-10 UNDER the limit.

/hijack

Wes Eargle · **Joined:** Mon Oct 27, 2003 9:47 am **Posts:** 3683

Dustin Fredrickson wrote:

Wes Eargle wrote:

..."street" tires (that almost caused me to wreck Sunday night on the drive home)

hijack

Good god aint that the truth. clapped out Azenis 215's at 50% tread do NOT make good "is-this-a-friggin-monsoon?" tire. Rarely do I have to call my wife, driving the 3 ton AWD beast following 15' behind me, to tell her to back off becuase I was already skating around the road enough doing 5-10 UNDER the limit.

/hijack

I was driving along and praying for Hagar to hit the airwaves, because I couldn't drive 55. Whomever made that road from Wilson to 10 miles west of 95 needs to be bodyslammed by Randy The Macho Man Savage.

steve remchak · **Posted:** Mon Jul 24, 2006 10:07 pm

Goodyear Eagle Supercar tires from the factory. "Skating Away"

Graham Jagger · **Joined:** Fri Aug 29, 2003 12:53 am **Posts:** 1718

steve remchak wrote:

Goodyear Eagle Supercar tires from the factory. "Skating Away"

Yeah but try them out on a dry track at half tread. The Nitto R2s I'm running don't have much on them at all....

I agree. It's time to pitch TIR class. I think Jim stated it pretty well during the previous 3,000 debates on TIR class. The original intent of 'run what you brung' is now gone. There are so many STxxx classes that TIR is redundant. NOVices don't need to use TIR as their Varsity class after NOV. There is really no point to it.

Kevin Allen · **Joined:** Thu Aug 28, 2003 6:42 pm **Posts:** 3479

I saw a really nice awning on an RV the other day... made me think of... oh, wait... nevermind. :oops:

JamesFeinberg · **Posted:** Tue Jul 25, 2006 12:13 am

Chris Brown wrote:

i guess the ST* classes can now fit that bill just about as well as TIR.

Yea, thank god for ST* otherwise I wouldn't have had a place to go after Novice... :wink:

Jim

Todd Breakey · **Posted:** Tue Jul 25, 2006 7:04 am

Kevin Allen wrote:

I saw a really nice awning on an RV the other day... made me think of... oh, wait... nevermind. :oops:

I saw an awesome one on HGTV the other day that had a remote control!!!!!!1111!!!!

Also, BRR-SCCA had a little generator to power their timing trailer that was really quite. Maybe we should get one of those!!! :banghead:

Ryan Holton · **Posted:** Tue Jul 25, 2006 7:50 am

JamesFeinberg wrote:

Chris Brown wrote:

i guess the ST* classes can now fit that bill just about as well as TIR.

Yea, thank god for ST* otherwise I wouldn't have had a place to go after Novice... :wink:

Jim

Liar, they didnt have the ST* classes when you were 5 :wink:

BriceJohnson · **Joined:** Thu Apr 13, 2006 7:33 am **Posts:** 2230

I would prefer if you would still allow TIR, being a competitor in that class (who plans on pulling of my cold air intake for future autocrosses). It allows someone with a stock car to have a street tire class they can compete in reasonably. Without it, I'd be forced to run in HS with Mary, Bernie, and David, or against much better prepared STS cars. Whats the harm in allowing the class to continue?

Scott Johnson · **Posted:** Tue Jul 25, 2006 8:47 am

BriceJohnson wrote:

I would prefer if you would still allow TIR, being a competitor in that class (who plans on pulling of my cold air intake for future autocrosses). It allows someone with a stock car to have a street tire class they can compete in reasonably. Without it, I'd be forced to run in HS with Mary, Bernie, and David, or against much better prepared STS cars. Whats the harm in allowing the class to continue?

What is wrong with competing against Mary, Bernie and David? What says they might not just decide to save a buck and run TIR class? You still get stuck competing against them.

The whole point of TIR is that it was a place for folks to come out and play in their daily drivers and not worry about competition. You just said you wanted to compete, so you've blown right past the intent of the class.

How about we compromise and award event trophies for Tire class but not season trophies?

Your overall RAW and PAX rankings don't change if you run TIR class, it just means you might get a trophy that you don't get in HS. On the other hand, if you run HS, there is a good chance we will give out MORE HS trophies due to the increased participation.

Scott

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Heck why not: should TIR be dropped? AKA cheater tire thread

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