THSCC Forums

Well, it is not really a stab at the TIR drivers, but I think that one of the 'running flames'/funny things with THSCC is it's creation of the TIR class.... and the subsequent bashing of it

After watching the DS 'gentleman's agreement' fiasco, I can definitely see a reason for the TIR class. However, there already IS a tire class -- it is called Street Touring Anyway... I will end my discussion on that point.

TIR class -- sure run it if you want to feel like a hero. However, less people run the 'stock' classes as there is no one to run against, less people run ST-classes as there is no one to run against, and the TIR/NOV are the biggest classes we have. If you want to win, find a class no one is running in on your car's upgrade/class path and run there. If you want a challenge, go to where the competition is (maybe that is TIR for you at your experience level) and run there.

This is all about fun afterall.... right?

- dow

I'm running street tires, no camber adjustments, and comfort springs in SM. Every time I don't do well I blame one or all of these things The nice thing about running against guys with R-comps on street tires is that you have to focus on good driving to be competitive. I like that push since the bar has been raised.

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Beauty is in the eye of the beer holder.

What fiasco was that? When someone took the time to contact all the players before the season started it worked great. We had wonderful competition for 2 years and we did it on street tires. The few times people with race tires showed up, they came in behind first place.

Hardly a fiasco! No one had illusions of it lasting forever.

As for Brice moving from HS to Tire, it's his perrogative. I had a lot of fun running tire class, and I suspect he can too.

Scott

I had fun running TIR back in 98 too. Come to think of it, now that my V710s are corded, I think I'm going to slap the Azenis on and run the rest of the year in BS-TIR! That sounds like fun!

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Mike Whitney
whit32@gmail.com, 919-454-5445
V10, V8, V8t, I6, I6, V6, F4t, I4, I4, I4, I4, I2, 1, 1

Ah... now, that will be fun to watch. Hopefully, this will pave the way for a Mike Whitney in STU

- dow

I agree w/Brice on this one - I seriously doubt that even the top national HS driver(s), if put in Brice's car with his street tires, could touch Mary on her current set-up and the way she's been driving it. A more realistic goal would be to try to compete against Mary with equal equipment - even that would surely take a whole lot of talent and experience.

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Keith Q.
2008 Top Gun
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KmX8XuZ_DCo&NR=1

Dude, you weren't 't even 30 years old back in 1998, do you really think that you can handle the disadvantage of street tires now that you are an old man.

We all know the V710's are just a bandaid for age.

Scott

Wow! Congrats Les on the FTD. Awesome job. I don't think the extra 50 hp my car is making now and new tires will help catch up to you.

Jeff

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GS - 17 Honda Civic Si
STS - 91 Honda Civic Si
S04 - 00 Subaru Impreza 2.5 RS

http://www.kestrelracing.com

Which is fine and dandy if you have a car that already has other non-stock modifications. However it might be a bit rough for those in Stock cars to just jump directly into their matching ST class. All things being equal, they are going to get just as roughed up as if they ran in Open class with street tires.

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Richard Casto
1972 Porsche 914
2013 Honda Fit Sport
2015 Honda Fit EX
http://motorsport.zyyz.com
Money can't buy happiness, but somehow it's more comfortable to cry in a Porsche than a Kia.

and not enough room in ST classes for upgrades IMHO at least in my car.

If I want to be pushed, shouldn't I run in a class where pushing myself harder would actually have some result as far as where I stand? As many stated, I'll never compete with in a truly stock car on street tires (no mods) against a "stock prepped" car with R-compounds (and an expert like Mary behind the wheel)? I say this, once I win TIR, then maybe I'll consider making the jump back, but as it is, I'd need to cut off a full 4.5 seconds. Call me a NOV2, a low hanging fruit, whatever you want, I'm not here to build my ego, I'm here to try and get better, and its fun to actually have other people around you to push you in your class, rather than trying to "not be beat quite as bad". I don't have the money for R-compounds, I could run in STS (the pax is only slightly higher there anyways), but since a class exists that is more favorable for me to do well, I'll run that, until I win it, at which point I'll move up. That just makes sense. Hell, by the arguments you guys have made, why am I not running X-class, Carl certainly would "push me" harder, but by "push me harder", really all I'm saying is he'd kick my ass worse. . .

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2012 MX-5 Sport SUV

At the end of the day, even if you win the TIR class, you are still 4.5 seconds behind the winning HS car. So now you have a trophy for being that far back

You only get better by guaging yourself against the better drivers. Gauging yourself against the TIR competitors will not help you close the gap on HS. Now, if you are really, really smart you cn have the best of both worlds. Comapre your times to HS as you are competing and then win TIR. You close the gap (hopefully) and get a little magnet.

As for "X" class...you move there when you are getting faster than your wife See the "X" stands for "that is what you will soon be if you keep beating your wife".

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Jim Pastorius
2008 Silverado VortecMax
1992 Camaro CMC#92
2002 BMW R1150R

2009 3rd Place CMC Mid-Atlantic Championship
2009 CMC Hyperfest Winner

I'm already doing that.... and getting my ass whiped... seriously. But on the other hand if I race with Triad or SCCA in Wilmington, I'm real competitive. If your goal is to win trophies go for it thats fun too!!!!
I was hoping Brice would stay in HS so I wouldn't be Mary's only whipping boy.

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2004 C5(415whp,390ft/lbs),
1997C5,1997Trans Am, 1986 C4,
1990 Miata, 1976 MGB,1997 Protege, 1989 MR2

Thanks Jeff. 50 extra HP!!! Damn! Weren't you making like 185 whp before, so you have like 235 whp now?!? I guess you finally got all your issues worked out? Thats awesome, I bet your car seriously rips now. New tires and 50 extra HP certainly won't hurt, well, at least once you get used to it. Hopefully it won't help enough for you to catch me. You gonna be in Sanford next month? You know you gotta let me drive your car again right?

Hi Brice, well, if you want to push yourself to improve, I would suggest you pick someone in your class who's routinely beating you, and use them as a "mark". Then each event you can see how much better you did against them than last time. Whether it's in HS or TIR doesn't matter, but your mark should ideally be someone who's going to be at every event you're going to. If you were thinking of using Mary E as your mark, you should know that we're planning on cutting back the number of events we run this year. But Bernie could be a good comparison. I don't know how consistent the group of drivers in TIR class is (I haven't checked), but if there are good consistent drivers there then one of them could be a good mark. A disadvantage of using a TIR driver from a different "base class" is that you could only compare PAX times with him/her, and they're only available twice per event when results are posted. If you picked an HS driver as your mark, you can compare run times directly.


It seems to me that if you pick someone faster than you as your "mark", then your goal should precisely be to "not be beat quite as bad". If you are truly focused on improving your driving, your ego shouldn't come into the picture.

One thing I would strongly encourage you to do (and it sounds like this is your plan already) is to stay on street tires for at least your first full season, if not longer, even if you choose to compete in H Stock against cars on R-compound tires. Street tires slide more easily, recover more easily, and communicate better than race tires, and will teach you how your car handles (and how to handle your car) much faster than if you jumped right in on race tires.

Hope that helps.

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Carl Fisher

Be Cool to the Pizza Dude:
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/stor ... Id=4651531