Course Worker Issues

Vincent Keene · **Posted:** Mon May 22, 2006 12:54 pm

MikeWhitney wrote:

For the record, more runs + more work is FINE with me. I was just stating fact with the numbers above. Just want to make sure no one misconstrues my comments above as containing any opinion whatsoever.

You been the Captain of this ship before Mike so you ceratinly know how it goes. If we do 5 runs it would never be fair (time wise) to those working. If we did 6 run (3 and 3) it would be more fair, but the time constraints will hardly ever allow that many runs.

That's why I said, if the majority wants 5 runs, someone will have to pay the price to do so.

jimpastorius · **Posted:** Mon May 22, 2006 12:54 pm

Well to actually make it fair, all drivers make their runs in the same group. At the beginning you decide if you are doing 4 or 5. Pretty easy to determine. After 2 runs, you guage the overlap and the amount of time. Yes, there is risk involved (wireless timing comes to mind).

So everyone works the same amount of time.

I am sure Mike put a lot of time into the new bus. But there were many, many people before him that have put a lot more time into the club to get it where it is now.

And to bash a newcomer because he spoke up is not acceptable for any officier to do. Brice has even stepped up with a suggestion and an offer to help out (at his own expense). This is the kind of attitude that that should be fostered and encouraged. Not an attitude that should be put down.

BriceJohnson · **Joined:** Thu Apr 13, 2006 7:33 am **Posts:** 2230

for the record, I never complained about having to work for 3 runs in the last heat, I complained about having to be out there for 1.5 runs per car in heat 3 in addition to 3 runs per car in heat 4. . .

Vincent Keene · **Posted:** Mon May 22, 2006 12:59 pm

jimpastorius wrote:

And to bash a newcomer because he spoke up is not acceptable for any officier to do.

It was not my intent to bash him. I just wanted to show him a little perspective when he was complaining about his two hours of work. A drop in the bucket to what it really takes to keep this ship sailing. Many people have put in way more time with little or no complaining.

BriceJohnson · **Joined:** Thu Apr 13, 2006 7:33 am **Posts:** 2230

right, but what you do when you do that is you quash any possibility of anyone but the most experienced workers making a suggestion that might effect your events positively, cuz frankly, I'm really sorry I even brought it up after all this trashing, despite the fact that I still think its a good idea and a valid complaint. Your work put in behind the scenes, although I appreciate it, is irrelevant to this discussion, yet you try and throw it in my face and say that I have no room to complain. Whether or not you put in the work, if something is confusing, its confusing, whether or not you put 80,000,000 hours into putting the event together.

Vincent Keene · **Posted:** Mon May 22, 2006 1:09 pm

BriceJohnson wrote:

Your work put in behind the scenes, although I appreciate it, is irrelevant to this discussion, yet you try and throw it in my face and say that I have no room to complain.

What started this IIRC is..

BriceJohnson wrote:

In all, I had to work the course for OVER TWO HOURS STRAIGHT!

How is the hours of work that I stated that others have put in irrelavant? Work is work, the day before, the day of, the day after...whenever. If your part is to work two hours at each event then you should be glad to do it and not complain.

BriceJohnson · **Joined:** Thu Apr 13, 2006 7:33 am **Posts:** 2230

ok then, poll question, of people at the event how many were actually out on course for over 2 hours working?

The discussion was in equally spreading out the work of "working the course". Setting up the event is a seperate batch of work, and one for which members have volunteered (thanks again for stepping up). Although I appreciate that, trying to equilibrate the amount of time that people work the course for the day and to allow novices to know whats happening is a laudable goal, despite the fact that you may have put in more work behind the scences. Its not irrelevant (far from it), but its irrelevant to THIS DISCUSSION, so let us proceed with the discussion of worker issues, you clearly have your own issues of feeling underappreicated, and no amout of compliments can help that apparently (I've sprinkled them LIBERALLY in my posts).

Ryan Holton · **Posted:** Mon May 22, 2006 1:15 pm

Ok, will all the boys put their peckers back in their pants please? This thread is not for who has the biggest or who does more work. Continue and this thread will be locked.

If we can devise a way to make it easier/more fair with regard to working, GREAT! Lets not throw out an idea without THINKING about it.

I think the wheel has some merrit, one question, who would keep up with the wheel of death? (changing it as we progress)

Chris Brown · **Posted:** Mon May 22, 2006 1:18 pm

nevermind

Wes Eargle · **Joined:** Mon Oct 27, 2003 9:47 am **Posts:** 3683

BriceJohnson wrote:

ok then, poll question, of people at the event how many were actually out on course for over 2 hours working?

The discussion was in equally spreading out the work of "working the course". Setting up the event is a seperate batch of work, and one for which members have volunteered (thanks again for stepping up). Although I appreciate that, trying to equilibrate the amount of time that people work the course for the day and to allow novices to know whats happening is a laudable goal, despite the fact that you may have put in more work behind the scences. Its not irrelevant (far from it), but its irrelevant to THIS DISCUSSION, so let us proceed with the discussion of worker issues, you clearly have your own issues of feeling underappreicated, and no amout of compliments can help that apparently (I've sprinkled them LIBERALLY in my posts).

This argument is a red herring. If the issue is that the run/work groups need to be cleared up then argue that. If the issue is that the work groups need to be of more equal length then argue that. Whipping out the e-pointy stick isn't going to help your cause.

jimpastorius · **Posted:** Mon May 22, 2006 1:23 pm

Chris Brown wrote:

event that people put a lot of work into

Let's keep things in prespective here...no more work went into that event than the 100's before it. We are not blazing any new trails.

BriceJohnson · **Joined:** Thu Apr 13, 2006 7:33 am **Posts:** 2230

no, really and truly, that was my complaint, I fully acknowledge the reasoning behind 2 runs in the first heats and 3 in the second 2. Thats a timing issue, and everybody likes more runs. I already knew that the thing is to sign up for the morning session, unfortunately, it had JUST filled up when I got to the signup sheet. The issue is about course workers being sent out early, not about who set up the event or who's unappreciative of who. I brought the issue up b/c I worked through 3 grids of cars working, not b/c it was 2 hours. Realistically, I've got a way to solve my particular issue, and I will continue the discussion of it in THAT thread. Vincent, leave me alone, and please stay away from that thread, you're not helping.

Chris Brown · **Posted:** Mon May 22, 2006 1:26 pm

jimpastorius wrote:

Chris Brown wrote:

event that people put a lot of work into

Let's keep things in prespective here...no more work went into that event than the 100's before it. We are not blazing any new trails.

agreed...a lot of work is put into every event.

Vincent Keene · **Posted:** Mon May 22, 2006 1:31 pm

Chris Brown wrote:

i will say that suggestions, even good ones, don't tend to get the best response when offered directly after an event that people put a lot of work into.

Not to call anyone out in particular but Brian Herring (sorry man) comes to mind as having the most recent experience in this area. That being a noob with "suggestions", but not being the one to actually implement them himself.

In his defense Brian caught on that his "suggestions" would be heard more clearly if he put in his own time to implement them. (like your offer to make the wheel). He stepped up and put lots of work into the RX program and helped whenever he could.

My "suggestion" would be to take over the WC duties for the Sanford(include your wheel if you'd like) and see how it that works.

Bernie Baake · **Posted:** Mon May 22, 2006 1:32 pm

Fact: we call early because people come late!!!
the wheel will help those who are trying to to get there on time. Very few excuses are I didn't know that it was time to relieve the workers, most of what I hear is" I was still running!!" means they didn't understand A group and B group as told in the drivers meeting or, I had to fix my car . Very few can say I didn't hear the call becuse we make a lot of them.
As long as folks continue to arrive late we'll have to call early

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