THSCC Forums

Well said Wes. I think the shock collar would probably be pretty effective.

_________________
Mike Whitney
whit32@gmail.com, 919-454-5445
V10, V8, V8t, I6, I6, V6, F4t, I4, I4, I4, I4, I2, 1, 1

Nah, I'm not gonna let you off that easily This is a valid topic. Just be aware that everyone participating in this DOES in fact have a smile on their face (except maybe Vincent, he's grumpy). I believe the 2 questions that need to be asked here are these:

1. Is there truly an overall problem with participants not knowing (a) what run group is on and (2) understanding when they need to work? Is this isolated to a few new in the learning curve or is it more widespread?

2. Is there an easy, efficient way to communicate this information that can be implemented and will carry on in the future? Needs to be "brainless" enough that new generations of officers and workers recognize the need and can figure out how to do it with little or no training.

_________________
Mike Whitney
whit32@gmail.com, 919-454-5445
V10, V8, V8t, I6, I6, V6, F4t, I4, I4, I4, I4, I2, 1, 1

and C. are you guys really the ones to ask about this? I would argue that I have more pertinent information on the topic, being only lightly seasoned. You've been running in fixed run groups forever, not to mention you know half the cars at the event by the owners name even. I've been trying to solicit ideas for it, and instead I get sarcasm and negativity. I'm trying to actually enact a change here, and meeting resistance, and I don't quite understand why. There is no negative effect to this, unless you are worried that the novices will take the first spots in the grid now since they actually know what heat it is. . .

_________________
2012 MX-5 Sport SUV

Brice wake up and smell the coffee, your complaint is you don't know when the heats 1,2,3,4 start ,are running or finish or when group a or b is running... the remainder of the thread (my post included) has been what to do to get the people to report on time (the reason we call early).
You need to take your own advice and calm down. Everyone has a right to their opinion and the thread here is the place to air that opinion, As you can tell your comments are not taken as gospel by everyone on this thread but you have the right to air them. Don't post if your not able to take criticism. I listed what I have found to be the major excuses for comming late to relieve workers

#1 Not listening or understanding the at the drivers meeting
#2 I was driving in the B group, see #1
#3 I was working on my car
As Wes said nothing is going to change that, unless there's a penalty for tardiness ie. lose you best time

Sorry if you didn't like the punch in the stomach line (thats your problem)
What I said is valid... people will always be tardy unless some penalty is applied. Indicating what heat is running won't bring the inconsiderate ones in early, it will however help those who dont know what heat is what.

_________________
2004 C5(415whp,390ft/lbs),
1997C5,1997Trans Am, 1986 C4,
1990 Miata, 1976 MGB,1997 Protege, 1989 MR2

right bernie, but your post isn't anywhere near on this topic and simply tries to discourage the idea that I've proposed, it only brings negativity to the thread. Theres a thread about the wheel and a thread about worker issues.

In my situation from this weekend, the wheel would have solved the problem. If you have complaints about workers not showing up, grind that axe in another thread.

_________________
2012 MX-5 Sport SUV

so, the wheel, would people in the bus actually keep such a system up to date? It would be a relatively easy thing to manipulate, my goal is to make it a one piece design (no multiple pieces to keep track of in the bus), so that all is necessary is to turn the wheel to change heats, and to move a slider to change the indicated grid. Is this something that the wc and/or someone else at the bus could operate ok?

_________________
2012 MX-5 Sport SUV

Brice knowing what heat is running is really very simple and doesn't need too much interpetation the classes are clearly posted on the side of the cars AS BS TIR STS SM CSP DSP etc. thats the easiest way to see what group is running Tarheel always runs the same groups
GROUP 1: (runs 1st)
All Stock classes, TIR (Street Tire), X (formerly PRO), and LAD (Ladies indexed)

GROUP 2: (runs 2nd)
All non-stock classes (SP, P, M, STR, STS, SM)

If you registered as NOV (novice), you will run with your
Group 1 or Group 2 class shown above.
looking at the start line and seeing the class of cars staging there tells you what group is running
The Triad club mixes the run groups and they change at every event so they use the wheel to let folks know what groups are running but you still have to memorize what group your in.

This will still not aleviate the early calls to work as long as drivers show up late to relieve there will be early calls the two are linked if no one showed up late there would be no early calls.
Thats why I posted here because its not off topic it cause and effect

_________________
2004 C5(415whp,390ft/lbs),
1997C5,1997Trans Am, 1986 C4,
1990 Miata, 1976 MGB,1997 Protege, 1989 MR2

You always feel like you're being listened to when you have to quote yourself. . .

_________________
2012 MX-5 Sport SUV

Brice ,just because a post criticizes your idea does not make it negative. What do you want, everyone to say "great idea" with no dissenting opinions?

Bernie's posts are most definitely on topic. The problem is people not showing up to work. You postulate that is because people don't know when to work because they don't know what heat is running. Bernie postulates that is because people either have something they consider more important, or because they are ignoring the mechanisms already in place to tell them when to work.

I have nothing against this wheel idea. It'd be useless for me, I pay attention to what cars are running and which grid line they came from, both things I can see in the pits without walking over to the bus. Had that figured at my first modern autocross with fixed run groups because I read the website and knew from that what to expect.

It seems like your problem could have been alleviated by better explanation at the novice meeting. If the wheel is indeed a useful novice tool then it certainly has merit. It does, however, nothing to fix the problem of experienced autocrossers not showing up to work, and that's what Bernie and the "sarcastic" posters are pointing out.

What I see as the obvious problem with the wheel is that the same people who don't realize it's time to work won't realize it's time to check the wheel. Without a break between groups, there's nothing to cue that aside from the P/A, which right now is already telling people which group is running and who should be working, and doing so at a greater range from the bus than a wheel would be readily visible.

I for one appreciate your enthusiasm in recognizing the problem and volunteering to work on a potential solution. I hope that's clear from what I've said above. That makes this a positive toned post, right, even though I'm pointing out what I see as shortcomings in your solution?

_________________
Martyn Wheeler
AXing Kit's '05 Mazda 3, #29 HStock
(when The Gonzo Symphonic allows)

nm

_________________
2012 MX-5 Sport SUV

nope, I didn't postulate anything. I'm dealing with my specific situation. I complained that the wc sent me out early, the wc explained why this was done (workers not showing up on time). I never really questioned this, although it would be nice if they would have let me know I was super early and gonna be stuck out there for so long. I suggested a solution to MY complaint, not the problem of people not showing up for work on time. It was Bernie who brought that topic into this thread, which is what I didn't appreciate, b/c it muddies up the discussion of what I really want, which is what features need to be incorporated/will this actually be used. Look at the topic of the thread. Its not "wheel to solve workers not showing up on time", its "wheel to help noobs". They are different, and him bringing up the other topic only confuses the matter.

_________________
2012 MX-5 Sport SUV

Which you find out when you sign up for worker stations ftw.

_________________
Has no responsibility whatsoever.

You know what group you run in, you've just said that. Guess what, you work the other one.

All you need to know is Stock, Tire, Ladies, and X. The other group is Everything Else. Heck, even I can remember four items on a grocery list.

_________________
Martyn Wheeler
AXing Kit's '05 Mazda 3, #29 HStock
(when The Gonzo Symphonic allows)

I've always liked Triad's wheel and run groups. It's real easy to follow.

_________________
In need of car.

ok, trust the newest member here. I'm a pretty bright guy most of the time, and I try and listen real well. However, to expect a new person to immediately remember which run group all the cars go in the first time they hear it is just unreasonable. The first thing they will do is look to see when THEY run.

I suppose just as good of a substitute to the wheel would be to post the fixed run group listings on the side of the bus. People simply don't absorb all the information you throw at them at the driver's meeting the first time, a lot of people don't even know what class they are in or understand the classing of cars when they get there, let alone remember which group a class they don't run in is in. One thing you did stateat the driver's meeting is to stay away from people working on/near the bus, so a listing on the side that they could just read (rather than asking someone) would be helpful, then they, just like you seasoned pros, could look at the grid and easily know what heat/grid that we're on (without fear of this type of chastising). I know this all seems like simple information to you, but realize you are different than the novices that show up, and be a little patient with them if you want them to stick around. If you want to be rude to them, thats your prerogative, but the THSCC that I know is receptive and welcoming to new members, and I'm just suggesting a simple thing to help foster that spirit as well as to prevent what happened to me this weekend.

_________________
2012 MX-5 Sport SUV