THSCC Forums

i was doing it too...woops...i know we say at the drivers meeting that you cannot go drive down to an unused section of the site to warm tires, and such...but driving from grid to start seems ok to me as long as you aren't putting anyone in danger...i'm with brian...i demand a formal ruling on this matter or i will be forced to bring this issue up constantly as if i really cared.

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05 MCS

I don't want to 'flame' here, but the experienced guys all know it is doing nothing more than cleaning the tires (maybe), or at least that is the point.

However, you let a NOVICE do that, and he starts slinging me around in the car for no reason when he really isnt sure of what he is doing anyway, and on street tires.

Just my inputs. Not calling names. I just want to ensure I go "Please, don't do as they do." or something similar, or better yet, NOT having them do that at all. Some of them have to learn that lighting them up off the line (or dropping the clutch in AWD) is USELESS when you are beginning, and more detrimental than anything else.

FYI - all my NOVs DIDN'T launch and didn't clean tires (from a HACK too1!! OMEG111onD!!!)

- dow

Guilty as charged... wtf

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2004 C5(415whp,390ft/lbs),
1997C5,1997Trans Am, 1986 C4,
1990 Miata, 1976 MGB,1997 Protege, 1989 MR2

Perhaps the correct answer is to simply tell the novice the truth?

[conversation]

Novice: "Hey, that weaving looks like fun. I think I'll do that."
Insturctor: " No, you're not going to do that. R-compound tires pick up debris like sticky tape, and these guys are attempting to get some of that off their tires before they hit that first slalom. What they are doing has no effect on non-R-compound tires. Don't worry about it until you have learned enough to spend a couple thousand bucks on wheels and tires and know how to use them properly."

Novice: "Hey, that 330i in front of me just launched like a drag racer off the line."
Insturctor: "Yep, when you are attempting to squeeze tenths of a second out of an auto-x course, the launch becomes an important part of the equation. Don't worry about it now. We'll talk about it back in the pits later. Just do a nice firm launch and focus on the course ahead."

[later, in the pits] Did you know that a typical car will take about 0.4 seconds to move the first 12 inches off the line? This is the only spot on the auto-x course where your car will use up the most time per unit of distance traveled. So in fact, at the competitive level, a proper launch can be extremely important.

The difference between a so-so launch and a great one can be as much as 0.5 seconds or even more if the driver is not taking complete advantage of the starting line configuration. The point is not to "light them up" off the line but to "hook them up" as soon as possible. On most RWD cars you will need to work hard to find the right combination of starting rpm, clutch engagement speed and throttle application in order to spin the tires "just right" in the process of hooking them up and getting the car in its powerband. It is a delicate balance, especially in a high horsepower car, and takes a lot of skill/practice to execute properly.

If you want to practice launching, you may want to go to a drag strip’s test 'n tune night; however, this is one of the last things you need to worry about now since until you have advanced to the level of extracting 95% or more of what your car can give in terms of the friction circle versus the track you are driving, focusing on gaining a few tenths at the launch is not where your energies should be focused. Remember what I said before...just do a nice firm launch while focusing on the course ahead."

[/conversation]

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Current stable:
2019 BMW M2 Competition slicktop 6MT
2011 BMW M3 sedan slicktop 6MT
2007 BMW 328i wagon (slushbox for now)
1975 CanAm 125MX2

Honestly, I had almost the EXACT same conversation with the WRX NOV driver I talked to. I wanted him to just be consistent today so his times were relevant, and the launch discussion was already talked about.

Good post, and I have addressed both things. However, not EVERY NOVICE has an instructor in the car with them (only first timers since the field was so large), and following by example until you 'learn the THSCC ways' is what most people do.

I guess 'setting a good example' is more of my point, but good resonal logic, and I agree with your post .

- dow

Nobody had that conversation with me last year Now I feel like a n00b, probably 'cus I still am. I saw the guys in front swerving a bit on the way to the start so I followed suit, got to the 10 car line at the start and said to myself - 'that didn't make any sense.' now I know that it may have at least cleaned my tires a little

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Colin O'Connell

'94 BMW NASA SPEC 3
'02 F350 tow vehicle (not bad for a tow vehicle)
'97 Miata STO (autoX and sunny day spoils vehicle)
'97 BMW 328i (loaner to the kids when their cars don't work vehicle)
'05 Toyota Highlander

If that slalom after the start didn't clean your tires, nothing will. You certainly won't get any heat worth having in your tires by doing the swerve thing.

I don't know if the club has a rule against the swerve thing, but if not, it should (IMHO). It's more dangerous than helpful. If you want the rocks off your tires, use some gloves and wipe them off. I don't personally find that very useful, but if it makes you happy, do it that way.


--Donnie

Well, my thing is this -- where are all the rocks? Bingo. All of them are off course. So IFF you heat up your tires, you are going to be sticking MORE rocks on your tires.... so the only place you are going to get rocks OFF your tires is on course.

Anyway, the point is just to set a good example (and be safe as SOMEONE WILL take it too far).

[/hijack]

Sorry guys... i didnt think about it until you guys started talking about grip.


- dow

As for being "unsafe"...there are far more unsafe situations at an auto-x. At Sanford this weekend, I saw people walking along next to the course on the way out to their worker station as if there was no safety concern at all. Here we had cars exiting that last box under full throttle and headed right for them prior to the right turn toward the finish, and folks weren't even paying attention to the cars on course…not to mention putting themselves in a high risk situation in the first place.

I've only been autocrossing since 1975, but I've never once seen anything untoward happen in a situation like light weaving in the line leading to the start this past weekend. Speeds were maybe 10mph down that path. However, I have seen people hit by cars going off course...both spectators and workers. The worker in the last session sitting in the folding chair 10 feet off the track by the slalom was exactly a situation like that waiting to happen...just like the folks walking along the edge of the course.

It is fine with me if the club outlaws any wheel movement prior to getting on course. In the past depending on individual responsibility coupled with firm discussion for the few cases when it is required seems to have worked well. I would additionally like the club to seriously enforce speeds on the grid and perhaps educate people with respect to their proximity to the course. Everything runs smoothly until someone really loses it and goes tangentially off the course in a flash.

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Current stable:
2019 BMW M2 Competition slicktop 6MT
2011 BMW M3 sedan slicktop 6MT
2007 BMW 328i wagon (slushbox for now)
1975 CanAm 125MX2

as this thread has circled the globe at least once, on the subject of rocks. station one was catching flying debris/gravel. one of my co-workers (triad member) got nailed by flying gravel. i remember one point when i realized i was standing way too close to the course. damn car went whooshing by me and i realized i might want to back up a little bit.

my off was probably not as bad as i remember it Chuck but, when i had the car fully stopped there were 3 or 4 dudes in my windshield standing directly in front of me. thing is i don't think it was a worker station. i think they were spectators standing trackside between stations 3 and 4. and they really did not seem to be all that concerned given the fact i had just gone off and could just as easily run into them.

we seem to get more spectators @ Sanford events than any other venues, and i think we might want to consider restricted access to the course.

Fair enough.

Point conceded (considering you have been autoXing longer than I have been alive ).

- dow

If you're getting hit by tire debris, you are definitely too close to the course. In the future, make the call and move the station. No one will fault you for erring on the side of safety.

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In need of car.

I had told people not to cross the drainage ditch in the center if they were just spectating. Having almost been hit by a Corvette going off course a couple years ago with another club I ran with the workers should never think twice about moving the station a few yards in either direction if they feel the cars are aiming right for them if they are sliding.

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2010 Honda Fit Sport
Couple of bicycles

this was on the outside edge. and again when i went looking for where i went off in regard to a worker's station i could not see any way possible it was a worker's station. i am fairly sure they were spectators.


AND WHY IS IT ALWAYS GOTTA BE A CORVETTE THAT RAN OFF COURSE AND NEARLY etc. etc. etc. etc. . sorry Keith just being a d***. damn corvette guys.