Incorrect DNF's

Mitchell Moore · **Joined:** Fri Aug 29, 2003 3:11 pm **Posts:** 197

Jason Mauldin wrote:

DanDurusky wrote:

^i'm pretty darn sure i got a DNF called for that as well on my 4th run. I was going to go protest it, but then i realized my time was crap anyway

I saw a incorrect DNF called on the car in front of me while I was waiting to start on my last run. I got Mitch to call it in as cone and not a DNF. It's usually not a huge deal, since your time is wasted anyway, but it can definitely make you second guess your run.

When I called this in the folks working the station responded that the car was on the wrong side of the cone when the car hit the cone.

It seems like we had number of DNF's called in that were just a cone penalty. I had one called on me at the first gate after the turnaround. I hit the right cone of the gate with my left bumper. That was the only place in my video that I was even remotely off course. Like Dan I had a poor run so I did not protest it.

Chris Brown wrote:

Rick Butters wrote:

Chris wrote

Quote:

but what if they get so out of shape that they are totally on the wrong side of the cone, but they nick it and it falls - is that a penalty or is that a DNF

It is a cone penalty.

ok, thx for the info

btw, there was an event in greenville two years ago, where there was a chicago box that almost brought you down to a stop....i joked that if you just blew right by the box but was able to nick the pointer cone, then you'd actually make up more than the 2 second penalty...i really didn't think you could do that at the time, but now i know :twisted:

I started a new thread because this was in the novice school thread and some folks might not see it there.

Chris is obviously not the only non-novice that is not sure about the DNF call.

Richard Casto · **Posted:** Tue Mar 21, 2006 5:03 pm

Not just DNFs, but there is probably a handful of weird cone, element situations...

1. The DNF issue you mention
2. The magic cone that is hit, flips in the air and lands upright, but still in the box.
3. Driver misses element, but does not go through another element, corrects course (i.e. spins, then turns around) and goes through element in correct direction.
4. Driver misses element, but DOES go through another element, then tries to go through missed element.
5. Car element backwards (i.e. sliding or in reverse), but passage through the element is in the correct direction
6. Cones that are knocked over, but not directly by the car.
7. Pointer cone is moved out of it's box.

#1 is not a DNF
#2 is not a penalty
#3 is not a penalty (but run is ruined)
#4 is a DNF as course was not followed even if all elements have been driven.
#5 I "think" is not a penalty (someone confirm)
#6 I "think" is a penalty (someone confirm)
#7 I "think" is not a penalty (someone confirm)

Examples of #6...

1. Lots of standing water near cone. Car hits water (not cone), spray, wind, etc. moves cone out of box. I haven't seen this, but have hear it can happen. I believe this is a penalty.

2. Multi cone element. Car hits first cone. First cone hits second cone. 2nd cone is moved out of box. Both cones are out of their boxes, but car only touched one of the two. This is a two cone penalty.

Chuck Frank · **Posted:** Tue Mar 21, 2006 5:36 pm

Didn't see this until I posted in the other thread, so I'll copy it here.
Truthfully, I have found that even at national events, not all the participants fully understand the cone penalties or use of the red flag, so you may find the blind leading the blind. I heard over the radio 3 competitors called off course at a Pro Solo for going the wrong way around a short wall of laying down cones before I realized what was happening and corrected the worker.
Most clubs do go over the rules at every driver's meeting so there is no misunderstanding or accident. I am willing to do that at each driver's meeting so it is a consistant presentation, I think it is important enough to be presented to the entire event each time, not just to the novices. I'd be willing to wager that Chris is not the only non-novice in the club who didn't know the correct answer.

Rich you are correct on all counts but you forgot a couple more:
1. a pointer cone hits a standing cone and knocks it over/out of the box.
2. A hit cone gets lodged under the car and flies out further down the course and knocks over a standing cone.
3. A standing cone after the finish is knocked over exiting the course.
4. a cone in grid is knocked over entering or leaving your grid spot.

Answers: #1, 2 are cone penalties. #3 it depends on if there is a box around the cone or not. If there is, its a penalty no matter how far after the finish (Donna lost a good run at 04 DC tour for this one). If there is no box, it's just an information or boundary cone and carries no penalty. #4 Grid cones are information cones and are not usually marked so no penalty ( I DID get a penalty call at the 05 nationals for this by the grid worker! :shock:

No matter how long AXing, not everyone is completely familiar with all the rules!)

shawnwhipple · **Joined:** Wed Aug 20, 2003 6:28 pm **Posts:** 603

Quote:

5. Car element backwards (i.e. sliding or in reverse), but passage through the element is in the correct direction
6. Cones that are knocked over, but not directly by the car.
7. Pointer cone is moved out of it's box.

#5 No penalty as long as you don't hit cones or DNF
#6 Penalty.
#7 No penalty for pointer cones.

Chuck Frank · **Posted:** Tue Mar 21, 2006 7:17 pm

shawnwhipple wrote:

Quote:

5. Car element backwards (i.e. sliding or in reverse), but passage through the element is in the correct direction
6. Cones that are knocked over, but not directly by the car.
7. Pointer cone is moved out of it's box.

#5 No penalty as long as you don't hit cones or DNF
#6 Penalty.
#7 No penalty for pointer cones.

#5 Rob Faulkner's favorite way to go thru the finish! :lol:

MartynWheeler · **Joined:** Mon Jan 02, 2006 9:30 pm **Posts:** 303

shawnwhipple wrote:

#7 No penalty for pointer cones.

Which therefore means that while hitting the outer one of a double standing cone while going the wrong side of the gate is merely a penalty, taking out the pointer cone is a DNF, right?

shawnwhipple · **Joined:** Wed Aug 20, 2003 6:28 pm **Posts:** 603

Quote:

Which therefore means that while hitting the outer one of a double standing cone while going the wrong side of the gate is merely a penalty, taking out the pointer cone is a DNF, right?

Pointer cones don't define the course, the upright cones do. Pointer cones are for informational purposes only.

So, in your example, if you are so far outside the gate that you hit the pointer cone but leave the upright cone in it's box then it would be a DNF. If you hit the pointer cone and it hits the upright cone out of the box then you get lucky and it counts only as a cone penalty

Donnie Barnes · **Posted:** Tue Mar 21, 2006 10:29 pm

Slightly off topic, but I was working course at a ProSolo when a driver took off with no helmet on (how that gets past the starter I don't know). First station radios me to red flag him (i'm at the second station) and I do, but as I'm starting to the radio control person starts screaming for me *not* to (the reason for it was sent over the radio by corner one). I used my judgment and did it anyway. Radio control yelled at me on the radio for doing it. And I mean *yelled* at me.

Corner number one radios in that it would have been incredibly stupid and negligent on our part to let him finish that run at speed with no helmet. Radio control comes back on very sheepishly soon after and says that we did the right thing. I'm sure radio control was "corrected." Of course, no apology was forthcoming for the screaming in the first place.

Guy is scored a DNF for that run, obviously.

--Donnie "thick skin, but good memory" Barnes

Wes Eargle · **Joined:** Mon Oct 27, 2003 9:47 am **Posts:** 3683

Donnie, I made the same call at another NC club's event. Numbnuts tried putting on his helmet on the taxiway in Danville (a famous "I'm stopping counting paces after 30" slalom). Sorry, you get to go to the back of the line.

Vincent Keene · **Posted:** Wed Mar 22, 2006 10:09 am

Donnie Barnes wrote:

Slightly off topic, but I was working course at a ProSolo when a driver took off with no helmet on (how that gets past the starter I don't know).

It happened this weekend too. :oops:

The starter missed it (tighten up Mitch! :whip:

) and the run was started. Luckily a course workered noticed (good job! :thumbsup:

) and red flagged the driver. The driver wasn't too happy about not getting a re-run either.

Todd Breakey · **Posted:** Thu Mar 23, 2006 7:26 am

Wasn't the helmet sitting in the passenger seat?

[sarcastic mode on]The driver could have thrown it on while rolling over and been just fine!!![sarcastic mode off]

Richard Casto · **Posted:** Thu Mar 23, 2006 10:10 am

Todd Breakey wrote:

Wasn't the helmet sitting in the passenger seat?

[sarcastic mode on]The driver could have thrown it on while rolling over and been just fine!!![sarcastic mode off]

I am just afraid I am going to take my air tank to grid and forget to take it out and then have it crashing around in the back seat during my run.

Chris Brown · **Posted:** Thu Mar 23, 2006 10:11 am

Richard Casto wrote:

Todd Breakey wrote:

Wasn't the helmet sitting in the passenger seat?

[sarcastic mode on]The driver could have thrown it on while rolling over and been just fine!!![sarcastic mode off]

I am just afraid I am going to take my air tank to grid and forget to take it out and then have it crashing around in the back seat during my run.

been there, done that, but it was my water sprayer and luckily it wasn't during an actuall points event.

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