Region only mod allowance: CDV delete

WalterHouston · **Posted:** Wed Dec 07, 2005 10:32 am

Maybe I should run SM next year....

Great! Bring it. We'd love to have you.

Both Chris and I are making LEGAL SM mods to our cars. With new tires, we should be some faster. (Sorry Westerfield) Better driving would help too.

WalterHouston · **Posted:** Wed Dec 07, 2005 10:37 am

"And until you have over 310ftlb from a measly 1.8 liters, I don't want to hear it..."

Wow! I thought everybody could hear my car. :wink:

I'll take out that vortex cone I put in last spring to make it quieter.

steve remchak · **Posted:** Wed Dec 07, 2005 10:57 am

Dan, the question i have is this. you mention sporadically thru these posts the desire to run more HPDE s. are you building a car that will be comfortable/ safe at high speeds? the M3 is a good track car in a stock form. but remember yours is 9 years old. it will soon be time for maintennance items such as bushings, mounts, shocks, brake lines maybe & possibly control arms, shock mounts/hats etc. etc. all of which are upgradeable and advantageous to a track car. these things do not bode well for your autoX classing. so as i see it the clutch delete is either your first of many challenges to rules regarding mods or let the chips fall where they may and run what you brung in whatever class it takes you.

or build an autox car to spec for one class, stick with it all year and see how you fare on a level regulated playing field. which after all is why the rules exist.

Brian Herring · **Posted:** Wed Dec 07, 2005 11:10 am

Kevin Allen wrote:

Quote:

Sweet. So I just move to any class with a PAX I like that no one is running in at the event I am attending, and no one can protest me!!! Sweet!

- dow

You don't have to be in the same class to protest someone. Noob.

MikeWhiteney wrote:

Repeat after me: Legality is up to the competitors in a class.

According to the way I read Whitney's post, if there is no one in the class, then no one can contest my 'legality'.

Loop Holes rock. Forget CDV valves... I am just going to choose my PAX

- dow

MikeWhitney · **Joined:** Wed Aug 20, 2003 9:15 pm **Posts:** 4724

Rich Anderson wrote:

MikeWhitney wrote:

Repeat after me: Legality is up to the competitors in a class.

Is this your opinion (as you stated the first time you said it on page 1) or is this a fact? If Donnie registers as H-stock and is the only competitor, will no officer come forward and move him? That sounds absurd, but I will readily admit I don't know the precedent.

It's fact unless the officers have changed something since the last time I was an officer.

Don't read too much into this. Of course the officers and everyone else will apply pressure to get people to play by the rules, and enter the right class, but it's not their responsibility OR their job to do so.

So when you see someone "getting away with cheating" don't point fingers at the officers. It's not their fault nor is it their call. They will help enforce rules on a best-effort basis only.

Get it?

MikeWhitney · **Joined:** Wed Aug 20, 2003 9:15 pm **Posts:** 4724

Brian Herring wrote:

Kevin Allen wrote:

Quote:

Sweet. So I just move to any class with a PAX I like that no one is running in at the event I am attending, and no one can protest me!!! Sweet!

- dow

You don't have to be in the same class to protest someone. Noob.

MikeWhiteney wrote:

Repeat after me: Legality is up to the competitors in a class.

According to the way I read Whitney's post, if there is no one in the class, then no one can contest my 'legality'.

- dow

Actually I'm not 100% sure what group of people can/cannot protest but I believe it's only competitors within class. Can someone check the rules to be sure?

DanDurusky · **Joined:** Sun Apr 10, 2005 7:31 pm **Posts:** 686

^true. maintenance is my winter project. i already have cooling sys, hoses, belts, plugs, brakes/fluid/lines, shocks, shockmounts, trannymounts, brakelighswitch, oilchange, and i think thats it, done

next up is to inspect the front end bushings.. something is goofy up there causing the car to really wander on uneven/groovy pavements and wiggle sometimes under braking. i think its is the rear lower control arm bushings. i'll also look at the rear trailing arm bushings and guido

i like getting 'er in tip top shape just as much as perf mods! hah this is what i was missing w/ the R32.. jsut too new and maint. free

and i never intended to cheat or run outside my class. i'm simply 'poking' at every option until i find one that gives. or some similar analogy. ha

i'll either be in BSP (or BSP/TIRE) or STU. either way i'll be legal when the time comes.

Jim, the CDV in between two hydraulic lines for the clutch. so it just floats there. when its removed, you just connect the two lines directly to each other. sound ok then?

line -> CDV -> line goes to line -> line

Rich Anderson · **Posted:** Wed Dec 07, 2005 11:21 am

MikeWhitney wrote:

Don't read too much into this. Of course the officers and everyone else will apply pressure to get people to play by the rules, and enter the right class, but it's not their responsibility OR their job to do so.
Get it?

I get it, except for one thing. Is it only apply pressure or can an officer step in and rule a car illegal, thus mandating a class change? Not saying they are required to do so, just if it is within their mandate. Or is a formal protest process is required? To me, having an officer being able to circumvent the inherently combative process of a protest by simply talking to a participant and informing them of their classing mistake, would be preferable.

MikeWhitney · **Joined:** Wed Aug 20, 2003 9:15 pm **Posts:** 4724

Rich Anderson wrote:

MikeWhitney wrote:

Don't read too much into this. Of course the officers and everyone else will apply pressure to get people to play by the rules, and enter the right class, but it's not their responsibility OR their job to do so.
Get it?

I get it, except for one thing. Is it only apply pressure or can an officer step in and rule a car illegal, thus mandating a class change? Not saying they are required to do so, just if it is within their mandate. Or is a formal protest process is required? To me, having an officer being able to circumvent the inherently combative process of a protest by simply talking to a participant and informing them of their classing mistake, would be preferable.

Well the officers make the rules and I'm sure one of them could decide to do this, but it has never (AFAIK) come to this. Usually people will take advice and reclass themselves appropriately when asked.

If they don't take friendly advice, the next step is to encourage competitors to protest. All it takes is one person in class saying, "Look at him, he's illegal" and boom, protest filed, judged, and acted upon. That's when a change is mandated. But it has to come from a competitor, or an officer has to decide to be the protestor himself (which has also happened).

Kevin Hoff · **Posted:** Wed Dec 07, 2005 1:00 pm

If we're following the SCCA rulebook (and this thread and the 30 like it in the last year has made it painfully obvious that we are...) then only the competitors in class and the event stewards may make a protest against a car. This is to allow tech at nationals to do spot checks and get rulings even if no one in a class is willing to protest one of their competitors. It also allows the event chair (or other officials, if we were an SCCA region they would be listed on the sanction form. Since we aren't I guess it's the club officers. This is probably buried in the club bylaws somewhere.) to protest a car intentionally misclassed.

I don't think this has ever been done, BTW. 99.9% of the time intentionally misclassed cars are either ignored or peer pressure gets them to move where they belong. <edit: Mike types faster than me too!>

--Kevin H.

Aaron Buckley · **Posted:** Wed Dec 07, 2005 1:16 pm

Kevin's correct for the Tours. In ProSolos, anyone competing can protest any other car in the event. This is due to everyone competing for challenge positions, regardless of the class. - AB

David Teague · **Posted:** Wed Dec 07, 2005 1:16 pm

Brian Herring wrote:

According to the way I read Whitney's post, if there is no one in the class, then no one can contest my 'legality'.

Loop Holes rock. Forget CDV valves... I am just going to choose my PAX

- dow

Don't worry if some one continually registered in the wrong class intentionally to get points, I would gladly register my car in the that class and protest them, then DSQ myself if my car is not legal for that class

steve remchak · **Posted:** Wed Dec 07, 2005 1:17 pm

mod the car for performance and then figure out what class to run.

Keith Vail · **Posted:** Wed Dec 07, 2005 2:18 pm

DanDurusky wrote:

^true. maintenance is my winter project. i already have alum. radiator, tstat/housing, waterpump, hoses, belts, plugs, brakes/fluid/lines, shocks, shockmounts, trannymounts, brakelighswitch, oilchange, and i think thats it, done

What happened to his being a project to save money? :lol:

MikeWhitney · **Joined:** Wed Aug 20, 2003 9:15 pm **Posts:** 4724

David Teague wrote:

Brian Herring wrote:

According to the way I read Whitney's post, if there is no one in the class, then no one can contest my 'legality'.

Loop Holes rock. Forget CDV valves... I am just going to choose my PAX

- dow

Don't worry if some one continually registered in the wrong class intentionally to get points, I would gladly register my car in the that class and protest them, then DSQ myself if my car is not legal for that class

Dude that would be sweet. I hope someone decides to try this

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