Fun and dry event at Laurinburg

Chris Landi · **Joined:** Mon Mar 08, 2004 6:31 pm **Posts:** 579

Aaron Buckley wrote:

Chris Landi wrote:

I'm looking forward to the radar timing results. Stephen/Michael: if my handwriting is illegible fax me the first two sheets (if you have them in order) and I'll see if I can decipher what I wrote for you.

During the time that I was 'gunning' ******* driving the ******* had the fastest time. Oh, sorry, I can't give that away

My torqueless RX-8 was the fastest at 48 mph. Not bad considering people say the RX-8 is gutless. - AB

When I was gunning I saw you hit 47mph. I did see a car hit 48mph during my time with the gun. If 48 is the highest, you are tied

Not to take away from the fact that you were very fast, though. To me it looked like your car was perfectly dialed in.

Chuck Frank · **Posted:** Tue Oct 11, 2005 8:17 am

Rodney, that stair step slalom evidently was inspired by my showing you the Topeka S course map, but that feature was purely your own interpretation (not a direct copy) that turned out to be a funner element in it's own (W)right!

Graham Jagger · **Joined:** Fri Aug 29, 2003 12:53 am **Posts:** 1718

Thanks to Aaron and Rodney for chairing the event and putting up a good course. It was fun and very challenging. Even with the threat of rain, and a basically gloomy day, all went well. Thanks to everyone else who helped make it happen. At least with the cooler weather I didn't get a subnurn, headache, or eaten by fire ants. Always a plus...

I must say I had more fun watching Adam and Aaron running back to back chipping away at each other and FTD. That was pretty cool. Didn't even notice Mike all over them for time. Good driving guys. Oh and thanks Adam for showing me what the car can do when driven by someone good. I would have never beleived the Z can run that well at autocross without seeing it for myself.

I should've known that "S" had Jim P. behind it :wink:

Vincent Keene · **Posted:** Tue Oct 11, 2005 11:54 am

WalterHouston wrote:

My conclusion, probably unpopular, is that autocrossing favors smaller, lower horsepower imports. .

Walter, THSCC is a very accomodating club. We have all sorts or courses depending on your likes or dislikes. For a your 400HP Camaro that can't hang with a 100HP Miata, might I suggest a course with 7000 ft of straights? Like this one for instance:

Or if you prefer something with more of a banked feel, behind door #2 we have this layout:

I've for one can pick just one, so I just run them all.

WalterHouston · **Posted:** Tue Oct 11, 2005 5:22 pm

jimpastorius wrote:

WalterHouston wrote:

My conclusion, probably unpopular, is that autocrossing favors smaller, lower horsepower imports. It takes superior driving (Dan), a well prepared car and a lot of seat time to get a longer, rear wheel drive car around most autocross courses. The THSCC course designs favor smaller cars, FWD and AWD, and SCCA classifcation rules do too.

You won't believe the car that the one of the helpers drives! He is the a**hole that put that little old "S" in there. Oh yea, the taxiway too.

Pretty funny! Yeah, but he thinks he's still in an MR2 evidenced by how many cones I had to pick up.

WalterHouston · **Posted:** Tue Oct 11, 2005 5:31 pm

MikeWhitney wrote:

WalterHouston wrote:

However, several of us were asking the same question quoted above. My conclusion, probably unpopular, is that autocrossing favors smaller, lower horsepower imports.

Hey Walter - what's a a smaller, lower horsepower import? CRX? M3? Anything except a 400 HP Chevy?

And did you see what had FTD yesterday? A 400 HP Chevy. I don't consider my M3 to be a svelte car either at 3200+ lb and 240 HP. And it beat ALL of the Miatas and CRXes out there

Guess I don't quite get your point... Sure, like Ryan said, courses could be made to MORE favor smaller cars or MORE favor HP cars. What you see is a balance, but it's a balance at which just about everything out
there, if driven properly, can do really, really well. Autocross is a great car equalizer.

I can't, and probably never will, be able to drive as well as you two!

I understand your equalizer point and agree. My point is that some really tight manuevers kill average drivers in cars like mine and make it hard to compete with smaller FWD and AWD cars with drivers with average skills.

WalterHouston · **Posted:** Tue Oct 11, 2005 5:49 pm

Ryan Holton wrote:

jimpastorius wrote:

WalterHouston wrote:

My conclusion, probably unpopular, is that autocrossing favors smaller, lower horsepower imports. It takes superior driving (Dan), a well prepared car and a lot of seat time to get a longer, rear wheel drive car around most autocross courses. The THSCC course designs favor smaller cars, FWD and AWD, and SCCA classifcation rules do too.

You won't believe the car that the one of the helpers drives! He is the a**hole that put that little old "S" in there. Oh yea, the taxiway too.

Yeah, you also wouldnt belive that the helper that made the sweeper onto the skinny taxiway OPEN had the little import car. :oops:

Talk about role reversal :shock:

.

To make a course "open" and F-body friendly like Walter is talking about would probably put us WELLLLLLLL beyond what our insurance requires for safety with regard to speed. We HAVE to have slow elements to keep events safe and keep this club in business.

I hope we get some new blood to be event chairs for 06, variety is the spice of life.

For the speed and openness your looking for, you really need to sign up for a HPDE

You would still have to point the little white Miata by though :twisted:

Nope, I'd never get out of second gear or over 60 mph. We've been that fast 3 or 4 times this year. I'd just go from 20 to 60 three times with a drag race finish just a little longer than we had at Sanford last time. There would be plenty of turns, but none too tight.

WalterHouston · **Posted:** Tue Oct 11, 2005 5:57 pm

DickRasmussen wrote:

In regard to cone call "challenges", in addition to the ones already mentioned. Another issue is that there is no point in trying to call the cone while a LOUD car is still close to the worker. By the time I could have a chance at actually being heard I had forgotten the car number if I had even seen it. :oops:

During Heat 2 the person at the other end of the radio did a GREAT job of covering for my "no car number" calls from Station 1.

By the way, if we drivers didn't hit so many cones this problem wouldn't exist . . . says the guy who coned away a season championship for the first time in his career. :oops:

Just call SM 3 and you'd probably be right! :wink:

On one run on cold tires, I was given credit for hitting 8 cones. I was way out of control trying to go faster, not smarter.

WalterHouston · **Posted:** Tue Oct 11, 2005 6:22 pm

Vincent,
If I didn't know you and Ryan so well and know you are just giving me a hard time, I'd think you were telling me to stop autocrossing and go road racing like so many f-body and Mustang guys have done. I won't give up and will keep trying to improve my driving abilities.
"Hanging with a 100 HP Miata" isn't the problem. Driver skill is the problem! Honestly, I doubt I'd be pointing that 100 HP Miata by, even if you were driving.
That's Rockingham, right? Give me a little more time (and a roll bar) and I'll give that at try. I've been around Lowe's Motor Speedway pretty fast - 145 mph average speed.
It's too bad we don't have the drag racing thing at Rockingham the night before our event. Heads up, "Run what you Brung'" format sounds good to me. I'll put my money on the Chevys (Corvettes and Camaros) and the Pewter WS6. :lol:

I'm trying for 11's this fall.

Chuck Frank · **Posted:** Tue Oct 11, 2005 7:23 pm

WalterHouston wrote:

I won't give up and will keep trying to improve my driving abilities.
"Hanging with a 100 HP Miata" isn't the problem. Driver skill is the problem!
That's Rockingham, right? Give me a little more time (and a roll bar) and I'll give that at try.

Walter, weren't you signed up for the school on Sat? ~30 runs by each student there with personalized instruction on each one to boot was the equivilent of 7 events or about a full season's worth of seat time with instruction, too bad you missed it. The gains that happened there were astounding, even experienced guys like Kevin Butler picked up a couple seconds on the school course!
If you really want to improve your driving, I'd suggest taking advantage of THSCC allowing a passenger/instructor and ask someone with higher skills to ride with you. Donna and I use that opportunity at every event.

Yes that's The Rock, but I think they are refering to the road course inside, not running the oval except the part that's included with the road course. I've seen a number of Camaros like yours get around an AX course awfully quick, they can be quite nimble.

Brad Mackey · **Posted:** Tue Oct 11, 2005 7:36 pm

WalterHouston wrote:

"Hanging with a 100 HP Miata" isn't the problem. Driver skill is the problem! Honestly, I doubt I'd be pointing that 100 HP Miata by, even if you were driving.
That's Rockingham, right? Give me a little more time ...

Hey Vincent...
I can't wait to see the first reluctant point at VIR or Rock!!

Chris Landi · **Joined:** Mon Mar 08, 2004 6:31 pm **Posts:** 579

WalterHouston wrote:

MikeWhitney wrote:

WalterHouston wrote:

However, several of us were asking the same question quoted above. My conclusion, probably unpopular, is that autocrossing favors smaller, lower horsepower imports.

Hey Walter - what's a a smaller, lower horsepower import? CRX? M3? Anything except a 400 HP Chevy?

And did you see what had FTD yesterday? A 400 HP Chevy. I don't consider my M3 to be a svelte car either at 3200+ lb and 240 HP. And it beat ALL of the Miatas and CRXes out there

Guess I don't quite get your point... Sure, like Ryan said, courses could be made to MORE favor smaller cars or MORE favor HP cars. What you see is a balance, but it's a balance at which just about everything out
there, if driven properly, can do really, really well. Autocross is a great car equalizer.

I can't, and probably never will, be able to drive as well as you two!

I understand your equalizer point and agree. My point is that some really tight manuevers kill average drivers in cars like mine and make it hard to compete with smaller FWD and AWD cars with drivers with average skills.

Walter,

What's the overall dimension of your car? Mine comes in at 173". I'm curious as to how much longer yours is.

From what I've seen, Lburg offers the best grip for those on race tires. I also think Sunday's course was also a good one for high HP cars...look at what the vette's put down, especially the FTD Z06. There were two high speed sections to take advantage of..one through the offset and into the little slalom preceeding the S turn, and one starting just before the second cone in the slalom just after the S turn and ending as you set up for the slalom on the return straight. I had fun in those sections but had to go slow for the other stuff.

I agree that AWD offers an advantage but I for one am running OE 225's. On my heavy car they don't give the grip I'd like. I don't know if any AWD guys are running anything wider than 245's either.

After seeing Mike W throw his M3 around on a stock suspension on race tires(nice fat rears too) I'm convinced that his carrying speed and lateral maneuvering on those tires negates the AWD advantage of early throttle on. But I won't know for sure until I give race tires a try. And choose better lines. And drive better. And get rid of the stock suspension which is set up for track AND offroad racing.

WalterHouston · **Posted:** Thu Oct 13, 2005 4:43 pm

Chris - my Camaro is 186 inches long and 74 inches wide. Stock, dry curb weight is 3,650 lbs. I'm guessing it weighs about 3,700 with some gas and the 11" ZR1 wheels and race tires. Those rims are each about 8 lbs heavier than my stock rims that Chris is using on his WS6. Add the heavier racing seat and my fat @$$ and it is probably just under 4,000 lbs.

Chris Landi · **Joined:** Mon Mar 08, 2004 6:31 pm **Posts:** 579

WalterHouston wrote:

Chris - my Camaro is 186 inches long and 74 inches wide. Stock, dry curb weight is 3,650 lbs. I'm guessing it weighs about 3,700 with some gas and the 11" ZR1 wheels and race tires. Those rims are each about 8 lbs heavier than my stock rims that Chris is using on his WS6. Add the heavier racing seat and my fat @$$ and it is probably just under 4,000 lbs.

Walter,

Try to make it out the the Viper event that is listed here in the forum. Those guys have long cars too so you will find the course is to your liking.

No doubt that is a big car. I've been surprised by some of the times you guys have been pulling.

Brian Herring · **Posted:** Thu Oct 13, 2005 11:05 pm

Chris Landi wrote:

Aaron Buckley wrote:

Chris Landi wrote:

I'm looking forward to the radar timing results. Stephen/Michael: if my handwriting is illegible fax me the first two sheets (if you have them in order) and I'll see if I can decipher what I wrote for you.

During the time that I was 'gunning' ******* driving the ******* had the fastest time. Oh, sorry, I can't give that away

My torqueless RX-8 was the fastest at 48 mph. Not bad considering people say the RX-8 is gutless. - AB

When I was gunning I saw you hit 47mph. I did see a car hit 48mph during my time with the gun. If 48 is the highest, you are tied

Not to take away from the fact that you were very fast, though. To me it looked like your car was perfectly dialed in.

Wow... finally saw the times. I am really surprised my mph was that high. I was so loose all day, I was sure I was going to be 3mph off the pace.

- dow

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