THSCC Forums

Kyung is the exception to the rule. There are maybe a handful of women that when running in National level stock open class are considered legitimate threats to win, regardless of the competition. IMHO, she's the only one.

As for HS, it has gotten faster as compared to other classes, just the GS Mini S overshadowed that. - AB

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'14 Toyota Sequoia Platinum 4WD
Super Westerfield Bros - '93 Integra - LeChump Du Jour
STX 93 - Scion FR-S

Well, I suppose you've never been close enough to make a challenge to even realize that it pays tires, but I'd expect that Donna having been there would be a reminder to you nonetheless.

But I'm sure you know that PAX *does* make a difference to the challenge. It can "screw" you out of a challenge to have a tough PAX in your class and have someone with a softer PAX get in ahead of you.



That's why I don't care for X class. But it is easier to just create the X class and let those of us who don't care to screw with class points join it instead of trying to claim points exemptions or something (which other forms of racing do...SARRC club racing, for example, let's you exempt yourself at registration time from points so you don't "screw" anyone else over).

That said, you can "not understand it" all you want, but there currently *is* an X class that *does* award trophies and it *is* frequented by some of the top drivers in the club therefore it *is* pretty much the highest level of competition the club has to offer with the exception of the FTRaw and FTPax trophies themselves.


--Donnie

I love it when folks say nice things about me. But let's be honest, if I had "jumped" to SM, I would have finished 4th. Staying in my place in ESP, I wrapped up the class for the year. Dang, I almost miss Randy...

If Brian is still reading the forum tonight, go ahead and enter in ESP this weekend. I won't be there. Y'all have fun and I'll see you all at the fall party next Sunday.

Speaking of the party, so far only Charlie, Bowie, Christine, the Mackeys and Whitneys and I are sure to be there. We can party without the rest of you, but it won't be as much fun, and the club will get to eat the cost of the site rental...

Party and RSVP info can be found at http://www.thsccforums.com/viewtopic.php?t=3742
or in the snail-mail edition of the October H&T. The link from the club calendar is dead, Carl...

Sorry, but first, PAX is not even used in PS, There are factors, but they are set by the national staff and may be similar to but are not identical to the PAX factors. Second the factors are NOT used to determine who gets into the challenge, the first place drivers from each class are in, then the next X # of drivers who are closest to their class winners until they fill 32 spaces. The factors ARE used to determine the ranking of the class winners for qualifying positions and/or to rank a tie in differential. Guess my not running in challenges gives me time to read the rule book! You have never been high enough or placed in a challenge to know but in addition to tires and other contingencies the first 4 challenge qualifiers and challenge places 1-3 also win money from SCCA.

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SPIN or WIN!
there's no glory for going slow.

Don't ever say that at a national event, I know a number of ladies who might take serious exception.



Is this also your opinion or do you have numbers to back it up?

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SPIN or WIN!
there's no glory for going slow.

Yeah, but they aren't pulled out of thin air. They may seem to be, but the adjustments are *supposed* to just be to compensate for launch difference capabilities between classes.



You're right, and I forgot about that. I should have known, too, since someone did run PAX numbers after Toledo and posted them and I was 27th, yet didn't make the challenge. I assumed it was the difference between the "real" PAX and the altered PS "PAX".



True dat.



Never even been in a challenge, but I would have in Wendover had we made the class (was only .3s out and the cutoff was over .5s). Sorry about the jab...I was having a bad day. It doesn't change my *original* point that you don't hear X class drivers complaining about someone beating them who had a weaker PAX, though. So I'm not sure what your point has to do with the topic at hand...

I'm also not sure what even bringing Kyung up has to do with anything, other than to help PROVE my claim that the CS PAX isn't weak. If it were she would have done even better in L1 and would have run the Finale in L1 and left CS Open for her husband to have a shot at so they could have both potentially won titles. She only lost L1 events to folks with GS PAXes.

But again, in the context of this thread, it doesn't matter. X class is the only way Tarheel has to keep from screwing up points. If you don't care about that and want to run an open class, fine. You can still measure yourself on the pax list.

As for ladies who run ProSolo who could win in their respective open classes, please name them. I checked some results and I don't see any non-skewed by outside factor results that back that up. Garfield consistently beat Beth in the same car (not to mention Chiles), Danielle hasn't really challenged CSP hard that I've seen (Rod beat her in the same car), Jen Merideth doesn't beat Marcus, etc. I'm just not seeing *clear* challengers for open class wins outside of Kyung. You're still probably right in that Aaron shouldn't make that comment in grid, however.


--Donnie

Like who? Karen Kraus & Lynne Kozlak can both get it done, but they don't run ladies class, so I'm not counting them. Patti Tunnell and Beth McClure Strelnieks can certainly hold their own, but I wouldn't ever expect them to challenge for any wins in a mens stock open class. This is not opinion Chuck, look at the #'s and you can see there isn't a National stock class at the last 5 Nationals in which the ladies champion was faster than the mens champion, when conditions were dry for both. As for Kyung, she now and then runs CS open ProSolos and Tours, and has beaten the men, and I know when I ran CS, the guys would all watch her ladies runs in order to figure out where they should be.





You want #'s? Ok here, you go:

2005 Peru Tour - 8.9% differential from SS to HS (Braun SS, Chiles HS)
2005 Atwater Tour - 9.3% differential from SS to HS (Wood SS, Chiles HS)

2005 Avg = 9.1% differential


2004 Peru Tour - 10.0% differential from SS to HS (Onks SS, Jacobs HS)
2004 Atwater Tour - 10.1% differential from SS to HS (Kotzian SS, Chiles HS)

2004 Average = 10.05% differential

That's about 1% faster in differential, which equates to .6 second on 60 second course. SS certainly has not slowed down, so HS must have gotten faster.

So what #'s do you have to prove me wrong Chuck? - AB

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'14 Toyota Sequoia Platinum 4WD
Super Westerfield Bros - '93 Integra - LeChump Du Jour
STX 93 - Scion FR-S