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 Post subject: NCAC 2005- What can we learn from it?
PostPosted: Tue Aug 16, 2005 10:17 am 
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The NCAC put on by Triad this year was truly a quality event. There are some things they did right that I wanted to highlight because I think we'd do well to remember them when it comes time for us to put on the show.

1) Course Design- They solicited the help from Geoff Zimmer, a national level guy who is an excellent course designer and driver. The course he designed was-

- open, and easy to follow
- used relatively few cones
- was very technical in regards to determining the fast line
- was very, very fun to drive
- resulted in very few cone hits and DNFs

I'm really sorry that more Tarheel folks weren't there. We need to borrow a page from their book for the future.

2) Launch Interval- Because they had few cones and DNFs, they had a quick launch interval. I think I heard Geoff say they were shooting for a 20 second launch interval. And ya know what, with very few cones and DNFs, it is entirely possible to run an event that way.

The entire event flow was possible because of the course design. Four runs on Saturday and five runs on Sunday, which included a 30 to 45 min break after run group 2. They still finished really early and had time for a raffle and trophies etc. without keeping people late.

3) Nice Touches- Here's a list of things that just enhanced the overall quality of the experience:

- free lunch both days (pizza and soft drinks/water)
- free T-shirts
- air conditioned bathrooms
- convenient portajons if you didn't want to walk that far
- excellent site for the event, big enough, yet not too spread out
- free parking was included after all (you had to get a pass from the officers)
- relatively short worker shifts (especially nice when it's in the 90s)
- announcing the entire time (Karen Kraus was great at that!)
- clear, easily heard FM radio signal


4) They also used a "run and get done" format, which the longer I autocross, the more I actually like. If you are not familiar with it, the sequence is this:

Create four run groups. When you run, you take all of your runs at one time, then you're done. If you drive 1st, you work third and vice versa. Similarly, if you run 2nd, you work 4th and vice versa.

The nice thing about that is you have one half of your day free. You get warm tires for your 2nd and subsequent runs. I found it made for a very fun, social, and relaxed day. The challenges it creates are- no time to make any changes to the car between sets of runs, and for two driver cars, it can be a challenge to keep the car cool enough in the summer! (It was for us...)

5) The Site: The Greensboro Coliseum is a great site. Big enough for a nice course, but fairly compact also.

It's only real disadvantage is the issue of crowd control, and obviously, you may have to share the parking lot with patrons of other events. This has the effect of reducing your space available, raising spectator concerns, and creating some slight increased risk of items being stolen from traffic not associated with the event.

Improvements they could have made.
This isn't a criticism of Triad, for the event organization truly exceeded all of my expectations. Since no event is perfect, here's a few minor things I wish had been done that we need to make sure we do:

- post results after every run
(for example, keep a board with stickies on it that show run times for that group as the heat progresses)
- make sure grid is not a "back in" style grid.
(Jim P. pointed out to me what a pain that is, and it would have been nice not to have to back into grid.)
- consider improvements to the 2 driver car grid area


A little elaboration on the first suggestion. In Tarheel, with 2 and 2 format, printing results after every heat is sufficient. You know where you and your competitors stand before your afternoon runs. If you do a run and done format, you'd really like to be able to track the other cars in your class as the event progresses. We've done this before, so I know it can be done.

In a perfect world, it would have been nice if the grid was somewhere other than the same lot where the course is located. This reduces available course area. If grid could have been in the adjacent lot, which may not have been practical with the additional coliseum traffice, it would have been an improvement.

That would have allowed more room for the course and also put the participants in a location where they could have actually watched other competitors run the course. The lay of the land at Greensboro prevented those in grid from seeing anything but the start and finish.

Those are my thoughts, for whatever they are worth. We have a high standard now against which we'll be compared for when we host it.

And Scott, I'm very much in favor of the one weekend, 2 day format.
I think in time, it will become what NCAC was always trying to be- the event where the best drivers in the region show up and battle it out. Aaron was right on when he said that in the past, the NCAC winners were not necessarily the best drivers, and I think we'd like to fix that.

Miles


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Aug 16, 2005 11:10 am 
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6) I've seen the trophies, and they're awesome!!!11!


:wink:

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 Post subject: Re: NCAC 2005- What can we learn from it?
PostPosted: Tue Aug 16, 2005 11:16 am 
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MilesBeam wrote:
1) Course Design- They solicited the help from Geoff Zimmer, a national level guy who is an excellent course designer and driver. The course he designed was-

- open, and easy to follow
- used relatively few cones
- was very technical in regards to determining the fast line
- was very, very fun to drive
- resulted in very few cone hits and DNFs

I'm really sorry that more Tarheel folks weren't there. We need to borrow a page from their book for the future.

2) Launch Interval- Because they had few cones and DNFs, they had a quick launch interval. I think I heard Geoff say they were shooting for a 20 second launch interval. And ya know what, with very few cones and DNFs, it is entirely possible to run an event that way.

The entire event flow was possible because of the course design. Four runs on Saturday and five runs on Sunday, which included a 30 to 45 min break after run group 2. They still finished really early and had time for a raffle and trophies etc. without keeping people late.
Miles


We have more national level experience in this club than any other Carolina club. Remember the last event where we had 20 second launch intervals, few cones, few DNF's and 5 runs? :wink:

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 Post subject: Re: NCAC 2005- What can we learn from it?
PostPosted: Tue Aug 16, 2005 11:41 am 
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MilesBeam wrote:
- post results after every run
(for example, keep a board with stickies on it that show run times for that group as the heat progresses)


Well they certainly had enough workers to have put a couple people on this task, many worker stations had four workers and with very few cones being hit, there wasn't much to do out there. However, with the speed at which things were happening and the amount of time between each run being rather short, combined with the V710s propensity to overheat and therefor need to be sprayed, I don't think I would have had time to look at a "leader board." :-) By the time I sprayed my tires, checked pressures and took a moment to evaluate the last run, it was time to sit down and drive again. Still, it would have been nice and very feasible. Thankfully Karen Krause was doing the announcing during my run group, and somehow she managed to give a "play-by-play," letting you know where you stand in class after each run. She was very impressive. I work timing and scoring with the same software, and I'm not sure how she was able to do that...


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 Post subject: Re: NCAC 2005- What can we learn from it?
PostPosted: Tue Aug 16, 2005 12:25 pm 
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MilesBeam wrote:
And Scott, I'm very much in favor of the one weekend, 2 day format.
I think in time, it will become what NCAC was always trying to be- the event where the best drivers in the region show up and battle it out. Aaron was right on when he said that in the past, the NCAC winners were not necessarily the best drivers, and I think we'd like to fix that.


I agree completely! I really hope we stick with this format considering the momentum it seems to be building.

As slick as the surface seemed to be compared to other times I've run there (I'm thinking the heat had something to do with it), I wouldn't mind seeing that site being used for future NCAC events. We aren't going to find a more central place in the state and certainly not one with the extra amenities it provides.

The Triad bunch did an awesome job and hopefully this is just the start of returning the "series" to its past former glory.

Jim


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Aug 16, 2005 12:41 pm 
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One other aspect that was kind of neat was that since they ran a different course on Sunday, they could offer fun runs on Saturday with no worries about giving people an extra advantage the next day.

If you are committed to requiring people to be there two days to qualify for a trophy, then that's a pretty good format, IMHO.

One of the reasons they finished early was that they started early. There was no novice class, and therefore no need for a lengthy driver's meeting. Starting early on Sunday also allowed them to finish everything by a reasonable hour so that the travelers could get an early departure. Of course, if you finished out of the trophies in your class and worked/ran 1st and 3rd heat, you could leave even earlier. :oops:

I'll have to ask Dick if they had nice trophies. I wouldn't know. :(


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 Post subject: Re: NCAC 2005- What can we learn from it?
PostPosted: Tue Aug 16, 2005 1:15 pm 
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JamesFeinberg wrote:
The Triad bunch did an awesome job and hopefully this is just the start of returning the "series" to its past former glory.

Jim


Those guys and gals (about 5 or 6 of them) put on a great show. Not sure if was due to necessity or a stroke of genius, but they stuck to the KISS principle and it worked wonderfully.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Aug 16, 2005 9:53 pm 
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Wes Eargle wrote:
6) I've seen the trophies, and they're awesome!!!11!


:wink:


Ummmmm, OK. Actually I think that the trophies were the only weak part of the weekend. Maybe we can talk one of our winners into bringing their's to Greenville. Tarheel can, and will, have better trophies. :lol:

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 Post subject: Re: NCAC 2005- What can we learn from it?
PostPosted: Wed Aug 17, 2005 9:59 am 
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MilesBeam wrote:
4) They also used a "run and get done" format, which the longer I autocross, the more I actually like. If you are not familiar with it, the sequence is this:

Create four run groups. When you run, you take all of your runs at one time, then you're done. If you drive 1st, you work third and vice versa. Similarly, if you run 2nd, you work 4th and vice versa.

The nice thing about that is you have one half of your day free. You get warm tires for your 2nd and subsequent runs. I found it made for a very fun, social, and relaxed day. The challenges it creates are- no time to make any changes to the car between sets of runs, and for two driver cars, it can be a challenge to keep the car cool enough in the summer! (It was for us...)Miles


This is one area we sould seriously look into adopting. It would benefit 90% of the club members. The first thing the novices mention is trying to figure out the run/work...this really simplifies that.

The only draback listed was for tuning....how can someone tune their car during 2 runs, one on cold tires? Here's a hint, good drivers are not tuning their cars during their runs. If I am making adjustments to the car in grid, I am having a lousy day :)

This format makes it really easy to handle 2 driver cars.

The format is also a lot more social than the current THSCC format.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Aug 17, 2005 10:08 am 
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But this way is the suck when VMSC does it; one could "cherrypick" when one picks their number (they run in order, regardless of class) and run in the fourth heat when they know that a particular surface is super gritty. (I've seen it done at their Cloverleaf site when the 1st run group numbers 1-25 only had 12-15 drivers in it.)

If this were to be implemented, it should be done by class, with the different classes rotating 1st-4th so that *everybody* gets a chance at both morning sweeping the course detail and afternoon benefitting from the extra rubber that has been put down.

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 Post subject: Re: NCAC 2005- What can we learn from it?
PostPosted: Wed Aug 17, 2005 10:15 am 
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jimpastorius wrote:
The only draback listed was for tuning....how can someone tune their car during 2 runs, one on cold tires? Here's a hint, good drivers are not tuning their cars during their runs. If I am making adjustments to the car in grid, I am having a lousy day :)


A couple of things:

- It seems now a days, cold tires are a good thing. I know the V710's dont like to get too hot, nor those cheating ass Azenis :wink:

- Not everyone has driving the same car for the last 4 years. 5 events in and I have thrown everything but the kitchen sink at my car change wise. It isnt what I would term "ideal" but its what happens with a new car.

-The AXVP's and Scott are working on a plan to simplify things a bit, stay tuned.

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 Post subject: Re: NCAC 2005- What can we learn from it?
PostPosted: Wed Aug 17, 2005 10:20 am 
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Ryan Holton wrote:
A couple of things:

- It seems now a days, cold tires are a good thing. I know the V710's dont like to get too hot, nor those cheating ass Azenis :wink:

- Not everyone has driving the same car for the last 4 years. 5 events in and I have thrown everything but the kitchen sink at my car change wise. It isnt what I would term "ideal" but its what happens with a new car.

-The AXVP's and Scott are working on a plan to simplify things a bit, stay tuned.


Very few people are running V710's and they only go away for 2 driver cars if not cooled properly. If you run any where else besides THSCC, you will need to learn to deal with it.

Don't worry about a little old E stocker. Take a look at the other STS2 and how much tuning is going on. It might be an eye opener :) Same will hold for top CSP cars.

Silly boy...tires are inanimate objects, they can not cheat, drivers cheat.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Aug 17, 2005 10:30 am 
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Very few people are running The Tire To Have, even with Kumho contingency money out there?

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Aug 17, 2005 10:39 am 
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Wes Eargle wrote:
Very few people are running The Tire To Have, even with Kumho contingency money out there?


We are talking about the THSCC events. Last time I checked, Kumho ain't giving money to THSCC class winners :lol:

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 Post subject: Re: NCAC 2005- What can we learn from it?
PostPosted: Wed Aug 17, 2005 10:40 am 
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jimpastorius wrote:
Very few people are running V710's and they only go away for 2 driver cars if not cooled properly.


I am running V710's. Didn't have a problem with them overheating on the miata and they were super sticky. Sticky enough for me to beat Jim by .1 of a second on Sunday. :D Don't mind me just enjoying my 2 minutes of glory because it won't happen again for awhile.

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