One Novice's comments on the new NOV season class

JamesFeinberg · **Posted:** Tue Jul 26, 2005 11:46 am

Donnie Barnes wrote:

I still say X class should have more entries than it does...

Dang, and here I was doing well to stay out of these threads...

I'm curious why you think there should be more entries in X class? I may have missed it earlier in this fast moving thread. I can see the purpose of it in the situation where somebody isn't running for season points and doesn't want to mess up a close battle in a class but that's about it. If you're planning on running a full season with a club, why not be in open class?

In my case, I have a really hard time believing in the validity of any class being decided by a simple multiplier. Hopefully without starting another tangent to this thread, I think I would be hard pressed to ever see myself joining an indexed class. Given the complexity of trying to normalize the results of the different classes, I just don't ever see a fair way to do that. Heck, take 2 identical cars with the same preparation and you'll still have a nearly impossible time making them truly equal. Been there, done that...

I think PAX is a great tool for relative performance but it is just too wonky (yep, wonky idle, wonky PAX!) to decide anything close. Sure, if you're consistently PAX'ing in the top 10, you're doing very well! But that's about as close as it gets in my mind. i.e. It is moderately useful to track somebody's progress in groups of ~10 PAX positions but beyond that, you might as well be rolling some dice.

Note that I also don't see a better way of classifying a novice's performance so we might as well use PAX. Given the wide variety of entry level talent and car preparation, it probably doesn't matter much what we use as a metric.

Anyway, enough thread drift.

Jim

Brian Herring · **Posted:** Tue Jul 26, 2005 11:46 am

PJ Aspesi wrote:

jimpastorius wrote:

1) Modify the novice ride along rule....if you have more than 3 THSCC you can take other novices.

2) During novice meetings introduce the more experienced novices to the group. Sorry if you want to run novice all year you gotta attend the novie meetings

3) think of a way to award a couple of the highest finishing noobs (some one with less than 3 events). We can afford a piece of wood for these people.

-I must say although I disagreed with his "balls" comment, I do like this idea, we could help explain the more basic things like the cone rule, and gridding A/B running 1/3 working 2/4 etc. It would be nice to ride along with other novices, although I may not be able to give the best advice two heads are better than one. Maybe first or second timers wouldnt be as intimidated by someone that is only in their first year. Possibly easier to relate.

Vincent Keene wrote:

PJ I need to get a ride with you at the next event to show you how to beat Rob. I'm what you call a reformed AWD Hack. However the strategy may involve the air pressure in Rob's tires. :wink:

hrmmmm I'm listening.....

just kidding Rob!

I think we have another two people signed up for the Novice Mentor Program (or Novices Mentoring Novices

)!!! Hurraah!!!

- brian

Brian Herring · **Posted:** Tue Jul 26, 2005 11:58 am

jimpastorius wrote:

3) think of a way to award a couple of the highest finishing noobs (some one with less than 3 events). We can afford a piece of wood for these people.

The UberNoob award?

Just designate them with an (R) by their name? Does AX Software allow any of these spiffy modifications? Can this easily be handled by a local member database on the laptop/web server/???

Can I help?

- brian

jimpastorius · **Posted:** Tue Jul 26, 2005 12:28 pm

Brian Herring wrote:

jimpastorius wrote:

3) think of a way to award a couple of the highest finishing noobs (some one with less than 3 events). We can afford a piece of wood for these people.

The UberNoob award?

Just designate them with an (R) by their name? Does AX Software allow any of these spiffy modifications? Can this easily be handled by a local member database on the laptop/web server/???

Can I help?

- brian

The novice coordinators could give a quick look over the final results and pick out the UberNoob winner. Make it for only first place (KISS) ...a lot clapping and cheering...watching the noob be all embarassed...just like we all were once.

I never did win a novice class

I finished second behind a woman driving another Miata.

David Teague · **Posted:** Tue Jul 26, 2005 12:56 pm

Donnie Barnes wrote:

I still say X class should have more entries than it does...

I say it should have less, in fact I kinda wish we did not have an X Class, I would rather run against people who are faster than me and have a chance to beat them, sure I can compare times, but I would rather directly compete agaist the fastest people rather than they running in another class.
Just because someone runs National events does not mean the should have to run X Class

Chuck Frank · **Posted:** Tue Jul 26, 2005 12:58 pm

Ryan Holton wrote:

Someone can start a poll but they generally dont work because most dont bother to vote.

I think this issue is really brought to light because we have what I think is a huge crop of novices who will probably stick around for many years to come. I also can not think of a group of novices who are as fast as these are.

Isn't that because as soon as they got fast in the past we booted them out of novice and didn't pay much attention to them as open class DFLs?

Graham Jagger · **Joined:** Fri Aug 29, 2003 12:53 am **Posts:** 1718

Chuck Frank wrote:

Isn't that because as soon as they got fast in the past we booted them out of novice and didn't pay much attention to them as open class DFLs?

I don't know about them being DFL. But I would agree with this. In the past no one got to wear NOV for very long. It was just a primer to taste test autocross and learn some basics about driving and how events run. Then they move on to an open class.

This year they wear NOV all year. So when you look at the event entries, results, or just look down the grid/pit. You see a lot of NOV cars. More than half of these people would already be in open class. Unless someone can show numbers from previous years. I'll be surprised if there is any significant increase or decrease.

Scott Johnson · **Posted:** Tue Jul 26, 2005 1:43 pm

David Teague wrote:

Donnie Barnes wrote:

I still say X class should have more entries than it does...

I say it should have less, in fact I kinda wish we did not have an X Class, I would rather run against people who are faster than me and have a chance to beat them, sure I can compare times, but I would rather directly compete agaist the fastest people rather than they running in another class.
Just because someone runs National events does not mean the should have to run X Class

You see there's the rub, I'd also rather run against people who are faster than me, but not have to buy a new car to do it.

X/Pro/uber/fun/whatever you want to call it doesn't only serve to give others more trophies, it serves to keep the level of *direct* competition high for the folks that aren't getting it otherwise.

Fortunately for me, the crowd of Type aRRRg drivers in DS are getting so stinking fast I'm going to need to move back to open for the direct ass whipping that they can provide.

I enjoy the competition, and right now, the place for me to get that competition is in X class. I don't get to compete against any of the other X class drivers (except Sally) if X class doesn't exist.

X class also allows people like Keith, Donnie, Kevin and others to drive different cars at each event and still compete for season points.

Scott

DickRasmussen · **Posted:** Tue Jul 26, 2005 1:59 pm

Do we REQUIRE newbies to run in Novice for some specific period of time?

I sure hope not. Some Novices get faster than the current proven hotshoes almost immediately . . . but giving examples would be telling war stories as an old timer . . . :lol:

Brian Herring · **Posted:** Tue Jul 26, 2005 2:03 pm

DickRasmussen wrote:

Do we REQUIRE newbies to run in Novice for some specific period of time?

I sure hope not. Some Novices get faster than the current proven hotshoes almost immediately . . . but giving examples would be telling war stories as an old timer . . . :lol:

Pftt... I have never driven NOV with THSCC, so I would say no

.

I wanted to beat the fastest people, not my equals

Still working on that one.

- brian

Scott Johnson · **Posted:** Tue Jul 26, 2005 2:05 pm

DickRasmussen wrote:

Do we REQUIRE newbies to run in Novice for some specific period of time?

I sure hope not. Some Novices get faster than the current proven hotshoes almost immediately . . . but giving examples would be telling war stories as an old timer . . . :lol:

Novices are NEVER required to run in Novice class. We present it as an option, nothing more. This year, they have an *option* to run it all season long for season points.

The 3 events and/or trophy rule is only useful for letting us know who the novices are, I don't see how it could benefit them in any other way. The old way actually penalized a quick novice, since they end up "wasting" points events. You never got open class points for a novice finish.

Scott

Vincent Keene · **Posted:** Tue Jul 26, 2005 2:06 pm

DickRasmussen wrote:

Do we REQUIRE newbies to run in Novice for some specific period of time?

No. Our rules are that any driver can run in any class he or she chooses if their car is legal for the class. The exception is the Ladies Class where the only requirement is you have to be a female.

Wes Eargle · **Joined:** Mon Oct 27, 2003 9:47 am **Posts:** 3683

But the new way fingerquote punishes novices that don't start the sport at the beginning of the season. What about those guys that start at the fall novice school for instance? :wink:

Vincent Keene · **Posted:** Tue Jul 26, 2005 2:16 pm

Wes Eargle wrote:

But the new way fingerquote punishes novices that don't start the sport at the beginning of the season. What about those guys that start at the fall novice school for instance? :wink:

How is it different from someone starting in any open class in the fall? Start late and you don't get as many season points.

Scott Johnson · **Posted:** Tue Jul 26, 2005 2:17 pm

Wes Eargle wrote:

But the new way fingerquote punishes novices that don't start the sport at the beginning of the season. What about those guys that start at the fall novice school for instance? :wink:

If they take the time to read the ruls (most novices don't) they will find out that they are still eligible for novice class.

The old way punished them more.

Scott

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