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On my C4 I had to replace 3 studs on the left rear wheel last season. All 3 had the the threads strip in the middle. I've been careful to clean the threads and studs. It only happened on that 1 wheel. All other studs on the car are original and now have 115K on them. I also replaced all 20 lug nuts last year with fresh ones at the start of the season.

I now use a dab of anti-seize on the threads just to insure the nut doesn't bind on the stud. I don't get it on the end of the acorn where it comes into contact with the wheel.

I have read in some shop manuals in the past about never putting lubricant on wheel studs or nuts. But then again, it is referring to normal maintenence. Not autox/track people who are swapping wheels regularly.

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http://www.greywinds.com

FYI (again)

I should emphasize that even though I never had a problem from using anti-seize based on what I now know there is a very good chance that I was lucky. I did always torque to the middle of the spec'd torque range which might have been why I got away with it. I don't recall ever using anti-seize on Mustang wheel studs. I don't use it on the ONE stud (3/4")used to hold each wheel on the formula car.

I used it because it "seemed" like the right thing to do at the time and my very smart teammate at the time used it on his car. Of course he was/is smart in computers . . .

I also use anti-seize on spark plug threads with aluminum heads. However, I tend to torque at the low end of the spec. Before my next spark plug change I'll check the manual . . .

Dick

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Dick Rasmussen

FS 50 2018 Mustang GT

My shop manual does say to use a small dab of anti-seize on the spark plugs threads in aluminum cylinder heads. But that is the real intended use of anti-seize anyway isn't it?

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http://www.greywinds.com

It seems that a lot of people do use anti-seize.. and perhaps the rarity of wheels falling off in autox events is some evidence that it isn't causing a big problem...otherwise, I would think we'd see more of that sort of thing. Of course, the wheel falling off is the ultimate failure.... and breaking wheel studs would be the next lower down warning sign... which seems to be much more common.......

I've also wondered if the decreased friction on the threads from the lubricant in anti-seize encourages the nuts to back off, as would be evidence by people finding loose lug nuts in the middle of the event. I have heard of that a number of times as well (and there are other causes of that). It would be interesting to try and do some studies on people's habits and the results in this area.

We also drive our AX cars on the street, with both the Miata and Celi approaching 100K miles. We use the same lugnuts for our street wheels as race wheels, obviously don't clean off the grease, and torque to the same tightness (80ft#) I have NEVER had a lugnut loosen at AX or on the street. The wheel losses I've seen at AXs have all been stud failures
Wonder if they DIDN'T lube?), not backed off nuts, except Wendy Allen's first run second day at nationals when Mark Chiles and crew left them loose in case they decided on a last minute tire change, but forgot to tighten them before she made her run. The wheel wobbled badly but didn't come off.

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SPIN or WIN!
there's no glory for going slow.

My two bits:

1) The BFH can be your friend and your enemy. 10 years ago I had a stud strip while I was taking my street tires off before our NCAC event at Laurinburg. It was on the rear axle, and Dave Blum kindly showed me how to a) break off the old stud, b) remove the brake drum and use the BFH to drive the stud remnant out of the the axle flange, then c) draw the replacement lug he provided back through. Worked like a charm. A week later the car was in the shop to replace the axle and wheel bearing on that side. [Please note that I was grateful to Dave for his assistance and I cannot blame him for the subsequent failure, since he made me swing the hammer ]

2) Neal Harrington convinced me that aluminum shavings are the cause of (at least some) seized lug nuts. So, in addition to never lubricating the lug bolts, I always brush them with an old toothbrush before mounting the wheels. Sometimes I brush again after putting the wheel on the hub if I see more slivers. I also replace my lug nuts every few seasons. In fact, I just bought new lug nuts before the last event, and amazingly only one of the new factory lug nuts was defective. For a Ford, that ain't bad....

My onluy lug stud breakage issue came when I torqued them to factory specs (95 ft lbs). I lost five in two years, and most of those was during daily driving duty. When I dropped that down by ten foot pounds, on CarQuest studs, I have yet to have a failure. (on a 16 lug 3000# sedan)

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Has no responsibility whatsoever.

Ditto. On the C4 and C5 Vettes just whacking studs with a BFH can be very expensive. Not to say you can't do it. I've replaced 3 using a MFH. Since the wheel bearings on a Vette are encased and not serviceable you replace the whole spindle unit. Upside is you get new bearings, spindle, studs. Downside is they don't give them away...

The way I successfully replaced the studs on my C4 was. Leave the car on the ground with the wheel mounted and torqued. Take lug nut off the stud you want to replace. Hit that stud with a hammer/punch reasonably hard a few times. Popped right out. Then lift the car, remove wheel, insert new stud and pull through with a bunch of washers and lug installed backwards with acorn facing out. No bearing failure. Doing it that way tends to disperse the shock on the hub and bearing assembly.

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http://www.greywinds.com

If you are taking out your studs with single swing like you are wielding Thor's hammer, then I guess bearing problems can happen. However, you can work them out with multiple softer blows. All I know is that studs beat wheel bolts any day of the week.

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Rich
http://www.v8mongrel.com/

I can't remember if I posted this earlier or not. But, the front studs on my Integra are a biotch to change. You can't just bang them out. You have to remove the hub assembly (and of course replace the wheel bearing) just to get them out.

Anyway, the guy who I had change mine said he felt like mine seized up due to salt corrosion. The part that is surrounded by the hub was white on all the studs. He said he had never seen that on a Southern car before. I did buy the car in Ohio, but it only had 17,500 miles on it. His theory makes sense though, because none of the other Type R autocrossers I know have had this problem. Regardless, I use anti-seize now anyway.

Charlie

Why? I grew up on VWs so maybe I'm just used to the assbackwardness. But I'm really curious. It seems like the conversion to studs is asking for more issues. I'm just planning on replacing the full set of lug bolts every other year or so.

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Not spectacular just decent.
I'm not sure what I'm driving.
Maybe an ITR in DS.
Or half-assed STX prepped 330.

I dont see why you should. I've only lost 1 bolt in the 5 years I've owned cars (all used bolts). I only swapped to studs on the Corrado for the added convenience when swapping wheels.

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www.ncvw.org
1993 VW Corrado VR6 - DSP15 (RIP)
1986 MB 190E 2.3L 16v - STX (SOLD)
1997 BMW M3 3.2L - BS for now

Nice thread, but now that I snapped a front stud on my Miata last night I need a little more info. Where do I get new studs? For $100 each, shoud I just go ahead and replace both front wheel hub assemblies?

We were just starting the clutch and suspension upgrade job, so the car's on jackstands for a week or two. Better this happen now than at the track.

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Colin O'Connell

'94 BMW NASA SPEC 3
'02 F350 tow vehicle (not bad for a tow vehicle)
'97 Miata STO (autoX and sunny day spoils vehicle)
'97 BMW 328i (loaner to the kids when their cars don't work vehicle)
'05 Toyota Highlander

In the event of a cross-thread, stud replacement is generally easier than hub replacement. Obviously this is not always true as some studs cannot be replaced without hub removal. However, if you can replace the studs without hub removal, if you have an issue with your wheel fasteners, you don't have to hope that the threads in the hub aren't too bad to be corrected with a tap. Plus, visual inspection of hub threads is very difficult.

For me, it boils down to the inability to service and inspect the bolt system track side. Studs are easy to see and at least on my car, easy to replace. Slam dunk.

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Rich
http://www.v8mongrel.com/

The only car I have had stud / lugnut problems is my Datsun 210. It has issues with rear studs. The problems have alsways been when I let a tire store put the wheels on. The worst was a Western Auto store in Durham. I looked out into the bay to see one guy with an impact gun on the spinning lut and stud while another tire monkey was prying on the wheel with a prybar. They almost manged to get the lug to pass through the wheel before I entered the shop and stopped them. The fools were amazed when I showed them how to use a 4 way wrench to break the stud and free the wheel. It cost me an axle, wheel and set of lugs. Of course Western Auto refused to pay for anything. On the other side I replaced the studs the next month. I drove them out with a hammer but not the one lick method. That was 100k miles ago and I am still running the same wheel bearing.

My 510 had not problems with studs even with 10 years of Auto-X and 237,000 miles. I did replace lugnuts a couple of times though.

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George Bright Member # 141
One of the youngest of the old farts.
Yes I voted against you joining the club.