THSCC Forums

Why not both?

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02 Focus SVT
STF 9

We already kind of pre assign it. Your run order is based upon your worker sign up.

I was thinking more along the lines of dividing the classes into 4 heats. You make all your runs in one heat. A little event like Laurinburg...4 heats with 30 cars. All of ES runs together including two driver cars. Makes explaining when you work and run easy. Stops the cheating of people moving and waiting, events run faster. makes t&s easier ....

Downside...it breaks tradition. No saracism meant on that one either.

But that is another topic....

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Jim Pastorius
2008 Silverado VortecMax
1992 Camaro CMC#92
2002 BMW R1150R

2009 3rd Place CMC Mid-Atlantic Championship
2009 CMC Hyperfest Winner

That sounds like a good idea.

I also wouldn't mind doing all 4 runs at once, instead of splitting them up like we usually do. And I kinda liked the events I've run where your whole class runs together, one by one. That way there's no complaining about different course conditions within the class. And you get to see all your competitors right there with you & talk trash &/or congratulate them about their times.

Quit autocross and spend all my money on strippers or boats?

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Jim Pastorius
2008 Silverado VortecMax
1992 Camaro CMC#92
2002 BMW R1150R

2009 3rd Place CMC Mid-Atlantic Championship
2009 CMC Hyperfest Winner

We have run with a lot of different clubs with a lot of different systems for handling two driver cars and worker changes, and I'm here to say the system this club uses is THE best system by far! DON'T change it just because a few self centered individuals can't abide by the rules. I worked grid Sun 2nd heat when the rains came and had several people ask to run early or be allowed to both run in the A grid (to beat the rain I'm sure) I asked if they were working next heat, if their answer was no so was mine!
Donna and I have been a two driver car since we started and usually ride with each other as well, but we seldom if ever have a problem getting to our worker assignments on time. (which I define as before the first car of the heat we're working runs.) Whichever of us runs in the A line finishes our runs puts the car in the B line somewhere near the middle. If there is no open spaces we simply park behind someone. When the person in front is sent to the line, we are ready to run and pull up into their space after alerting the grid worker why, and are the next car to be sent up. That way we have time to make the driver switch without delaying anyone and after the run to park the car, change shoes, grab water and head out to work even if both of us are working the next heat. If we split our work assignments (not always possible due to one or both preassigned to T&S) the one not working next runs the B grid and parks the car just like a single driver. This is relatively simple for the grid worker to keep up with as he doesn't have to figure out when to send us out of order or go looking for us at the end of the grid line, and I don't think anyone next to us thinks we're cutting in line, we've been parked there since the beginning of the heat. After the first run we just fall into the next grid space when we return rather than doubling up again.
If this is a serious enough issue, and needs to be policed, I'd suggest putting the worker check in station by the grid and asking that workers add their car # and class next to their name on the sign up sheet. If it is seen that the A grid is overloaded the worker chief and or grid worker can easily use the sign in sheet to find out who needs to be moved to the B grid. Any chronic offenders can be talked to by an officer.
An annoucement at the driver's meeting that anyone not reporting in for work by 5 minutes after the first car of the heat has run will be penalized their quickest run should light a fire under the dawdlers. One system I saw for announcing worker check in time (start of the B grid's second run) was the worker chief sounded a blast on an air horn. Two blasts were sounded as the first car of the heat went to the line to signal anyone who had not reported in was late and "on the clock". When any worker who hadn't been relieved heard the two blasts he could radio in his situation as well, he didn't have to try to figure out that the next heat had started without being relieved.

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SPIN or WIN!
there's no glory for going slow.

if it was changed to have you both make 2 runs (4 total) all in grid A or in grid B not much would probably change for you two. On the other hand it might actually make it better for you. You may end up with only 2 total cold tire runs versus the 4 cold tire runs you might get by having to wait in B to run the next two runs.

I am not in favor of running all 4 runs in one heat, It makes for a short day of running and a long day of sitting around waiting for work time, trophies etc and you'll find like other clubs have some (novices and people from out of the area) that have finished with less than satisfactory times or turning weather will blow off their work assignments and go home. You won't have many 1st or 2nd heaters waiting around hours for trophy presentation either. I guess we could just leave a SSAE to have our "plaques" mailed to us tho. (ducking...)
That's the part I dislike most about National Tour events 3 runs and you're done, no time to watch how others handle problem features, adjust on your car, socialize, discuss runs, see preliminary results, hope for improving weather/course conditions (I wouldn't bother attending any Sanford events if I had to make all four runs first run group before the gravel gets cleaned off or if we had to run in the cold dewy period in the early spring and fall) talk smack etc. takes all the fun and social aspect out of the event.

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SPIN or WIN!
there's no glory for going slow.

I just re-read this entire thread. I'm now thoroughly convinced that what we have now for 2 driver cars works fine and we do not really have a problem with this system. This is not just from observation, but from all the events I have driven this year with a co-driver.

We may have a problem with a few individuals, that either don't know the rules, or simply think they don't have to follow the rules... but I have to agree with Chuck. We have a good system. There is no reason to develop an entirely new solution because a few people can't seem to do the right thing.

We need to deal with the individuals that cause the problems, not re-work the entire way we do things because of them. For any system you develop, there will always be a few that can't or won't follow it.

If it ain't broke, don't make it more complicated.

Miles

I didn't drive the course at all on Sunday, and I enjoyed being there just as much as I did on Saturday. There were times when I wished I could've stayed at the hotel for a few more hours, but riding with people, hanging out & talking with people, listening to Randy's jibber-jabber, etc. was well worth being there all day, even with the rain. Maybe I'm just not competitive enough to understand...

If that was in reply to my post, that is not what I was implying. I was just stating if both drivers did their two runs in A versus one doing 2 in A and the other doing 2 in B for each heat they run in it wouldnt change much from what you specifically stated you are able to get done with the current setup. Was just an observation since you stated you were able to make do with the way it is now, but if changed it wouldnt really change that much for you two.

by my count there are approx. 20 season long sign-ups. that would lead me to believe that we would have 20 preassigned workers. while most are involved in T&S and other admin. positions some of us (me) could very easily be given a permanent worker station assignment. preferably not a slalom. this in turn might lead to more pre-season sign-ups.

i like the truck to the stations idea. i too have worked 1.5 heats due to novice dumbness and it is painful. i also quickly learned if nothing else sign-up early for work or get screwed with what is left. while this would create more work for somebody i am sure, there must be some way for a computer generated assignment sheet to be created.

and please remember, what i know about computers and programming is now being taught in the second grade. so please be kind if my idea won't work.

however, drive workers to their stations and p/u when they are done sounds awesome to me. one announcement to the slackers and oops -deleted times- my guess is people would be there to work.

as for two driver cars all i can offer is Kevin Butler rode with me and i rode with him in the same grid and the same heat several times on saturday. seemed to be possible.

What he said.

- We like running morning and afternoon - don't change it.
- We have driven a 2 driver car for 3 years, and have never been late for a work assignment, though this weekend was likely the closest we've come to it. Let's not change the process, lets just educate people better

As a very simple suggestion, let's just have all multi-driver cars check in with Grid when they pull their cars up. Grid can then suggest the best way to make sure things get done right, it's not overly complicated for drivers to remember from the drivers meeting, and the flow is regulated without too much regulation.

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Dustin Fredrickson
-- I'm a nobody --

I was one of those (you told me no as well). Only did this because we were asked to do so during the drivers meeting by worker coordinator. You must have missed that part of the meeting. I wasn't trying to beat the rain because if I remember correctly during that Heat there looked to be no threat of rain. I also personally have no preference for all in runs in one grid during a heat or doing the A/B switch.

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Richard Casto
1972 Porsche 914
2013 Honda Fit Sport
2015 Honda Fit EX
http://motorsport.zyyz.com
Money can't buy happiness, but somehow it's more comfortable to cry in a Porsche than a Kia.

That sounds great to me. As I mentioned before I think part of my problem was not working the grid agressively enough. Checking in with the grid worker (and not waiting for him to work his way to me) and letting him know it is a 2 driver car in advance makes sense.

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Richard Casto
1972 Porsche 914
2013 Honda Fit Sport
2015 Honda Fit EX
http://motorsport.zyyz.com
Money can't buy happiness, but somehow it's more comfortable to cry in a Porsche than a Kia.

Richard, wasn't implying you were the one(s) trying to beat the rain, I had single driver cars ask me as well without a viable reason. I was there for the meeting, heard that announcement, didn't have a problem with you following those instructions to ask, but the grid was already overbalanced and since you both were not working the following heat the answer was no. I appreciated the fact you took that answer without argument.
If I was working grid again and had a two driver car advise me they were such, my first question would be are you both working the next heat? If the answer was no for one then I'd tell them that the one who was the no run in the B grid. If the answer was yes, I'd direct the first driver to a position near the front of the A grid and send them from there. I'd then position the second driver to the first 1/2 of the B grid for their runs. If the grid is evenly split there should be plenty of time for the second driver to report for work and the first driver park the car.
Whichever position I'm working I take very seriously and do what I feel is best for flow of the event and fairness and equality for all competitors.

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SPIN or WIN!
there's no glory for going slow.