Promising new ST* tire

Kevin Hoff · **Posted:** Wed Mar 02, 2005 9:19 pm

No, not the new Azenis.

The Toyo T1-R is being sold in Canada, Europe, and Japan now. It's supposed to be available here by the end of the year. According to Toyo's marketing fluff it's supposed to be much stickier than the T1-S and, interestingly, is made in a REALLY wide 14" size of 225/40/14! That much rubber on the ground and in such a small diameter could make the ST tire world very interesting.

--Kevin H.

Ryan Holton · **Posted:** Wed Mar 02, 2005 9:34 pm

Kevin Hoff wrote:

That much rubber on the ground and in such a small diameter could make the ST tire world very interesting.

Yeah but it wont leave much cash in the pocket from what I have seen

http://www.1010tires.com/tire.asp?tireb ... Proxes+T1R

The most common STS tire 205/50/15 is $159/ea :eek:

A 245/45/17 is $225/ea

Is it just me or are the days of super cheap sticky street tires coming to a crashing halt?

Kevin Hoff · **Posted:** Wed Mar 02, 2005 11:06 pm

Yeah, not cheap.

I'd wager that they'll be similar price to the S-03 (about $150 for a 225/50/15) when they finally get here in normal shipments -- what I've seen so far makes it appear that all the tires, if any, that are available in the US channel are going through Canadian middlemen as Toyo hasn't even announced the tire here yet.

--Kevin H.

Richard Casto · **Posted:** Thu Mar 03, 2005 11:06 am

This brings up a question I have about ST* Tires and what is legal for 2005.

The ST* Tire rules specifically mention that 13.3.F (four diameters and six sizes) does not apply to ST*, but to me that implies that the rest of the stock tire rules do apply. So does rule 13.3.B (tires can't be approved for use after April 30th) apply to ST*? Also what does "approved" mean? 13.3.B talks about a "Tire Guide". Is this a list of tires that have been "approved"? If so, where is this list? Or do you just consider a tire "approved" if it meets all requirements of 13.3 by April 30th? Also 13.3.B says a tire is not approved unless it meets ALL parts of 13.3. This would include 13.3.F which as mentioned above, does not apply to ST*. So does this mean that there are tires approved for "Stock" use and another set that are valid for "ST*" use. Some in Stock can't be used in ST (due to treadwear, etc.) and some in ST* can't be used in Stock (due to lack of diameters and sizes)?

I know I am making this harder than it needs to be. But basically I am curious about these rules and the impact on the new Azenis RT-615. According to VulcanTire, you can order some sizes now (not sure if they are shipping yet) and others are listed as being available later in the year. So will or will this tire fit under rule 13.3.B?

I really want to use the new 615 tire this year as I am pretty much stuck with a 16" wheel and the old Azenis (which I used last year) has a diameter that just kills my gearing . The Kumho MX (which a number are moving to due to the cost of the new Azenis) is not going to help me as the diameter in the 16" sizes is not helping me. But luckily the single 16" size for the new Azenis is going to work well for me (gearing wise)

Thoughts?

Wes Eargle · **Joined:** Mon Oct 27, 2003 9:47 am **Posts:** 3683

Go for 15" wheels and the 225 Bridgestone KD.

Aaron Buckley · **Posted:** Thu Mar 03, 2005 11:37 am

Richard Casto wrote:

This brings up a question I have about ST* Tires and what is legal for 2005.

The ST* Tire rules specifically mention that 13.3.F (four diameters and six sizes) does not apply to ST*, but to me that implies that the rest of the stock tire rules do apply. So does rule 13.3.B (tires can't be approved for use after April 30th) apply to ST*? Also what does "approved" mean? 13.3.B talks about a "Tire Guide". Is this a list of tires that have been "approved"? If so, where is this list? Or do you just consider a tire "approved" if it meets all requirements of 13.3 by April 30th? Also 13.3.B says a tire is not approved unless it meets ALL parts of 13.3. This would include 13.3.F which as mentioned above, does not apply to ST*. So does this mean that there are tires approved for "Stock" use and another set that are valid for "ST*" use. Some in Stock can't be used in ST (due to treadwear, etc.) and some in ST* can't be used in Stock (due to lack of diameters and sizes)?

I know I am making this harder than it needs to be. But basically I am curious about these rules and the impact on the new Azenis RT-615. According to VulcanTire, you can order some sizes now (not sure if they are shipping yet) and others are listed as being available later in the year. So will or will this tire fit under rule 13.3.B?

I really want to use the new 615 tire this year as I am pretty much stuck with a 16" wheel and the old Azenis (which I used last year) has a diameter that just kills my gearing . The Kumho MX (which a number are moving to due to the cost of the new Azenis) is not going to help me as the diameter in the 16" sizes is not helping me. But luckily the single 16" size for the new Azenis is going to work well for me (gearing wise)

Thoughts?

The April 15th date does not apply to ST* tires. As for the RT615, well, without any 225/50/15, you won't see me on them. I'll stick with the FK's in a 225/45/16 until I see the Z212's 225/45/16 or the T1R 225/40/16. I think the T1R would need to be world's better than the FK's in order to switch at $200 per tire. - AB

Richard Casto · **Posted:** Thu Mar 03, 2005 1:17 pm

I had a longer reply typed up, but my net connection to the forum keeps going away :banghead:

and it was lost ...

Short version...

Wes... 2005 budget gone. Will switch to other sized tire on next car.

Aaron... Thanks for the info. I may contact you offline to ask you some questions about the FK's. This most likely will be my backup tire if the 16" RT615 falls through.

I also think I answered part of my own question (above) about the "Tire Guide" and "Tire Tread Guide" that is mentioned in the SCCA rules. I suspect that they want to look to a third party source for tire specs (when determining if they fit the rules). And they use guides published by...

http://www.tireguides.com/

Also, it looks like people are starting to get their RT615 from Vulcan tire...

http://www.grassrootsmotorsports.com/bo ... php?t=8202

RodneyWright · **Posted:** Thu Mar 03, 2005 6:56 pm

I hate to ask such an obvious question, but where are you getting your tire information from? I'm just running the Azenis right now, but hopefully next year we will change the DS gentlemens agreement and allow stickies. I like to give them a run and see what true R compond tires are like.

Doug Jackson · **Posted:** Fri Mar 04, 2005 12:03 am

Don't want to topic-jack, but you got me thinking and I went digging on TTR's website for tire options this year. Two tires struck my curiousity:

Avon-Tech M500 in 205-50-15 for $77 and
Dunlop Direzza DZ101 for a whopping $60

The Dunlop appears to have been developed for drifting so it may not develop the strongest lateral grip, but the reviews so far seem promising-including one from a Miata owner.

Has anyone heard anything about these? The price is in line with the RT-215 or better which is always good in my book.

Doug Jackson · **Posted:** Wed Mar 09, 2005 11:42 am

I'm bringing this one back up because I'm curious if anyone is going to try something other than RT-215, RT-615 or Kumho MX for ST class.

And one other thing, is anyone ever going to make a 225-45-15 street tire? With the ST classes gaining in popularity and max treadwidth set at 225 you'd think one of the manufacturers would develop a tire of this size.

Adam Ligon · **Posted:** Wed Mar 09, 2005 11:46 am

A 225/45.15 would be nice but there are still alot or cars that couldn't fit that much tire.

What I would love to see is a 205/45 or 40. Or even better yet a 215/40 in a 15 tire. I would be willing to say almost every car that now runs a 205/50 would use one of those instead. Both due to better gearing and less sidewall and more rubber on the ground.

But alas none of the tire companies seem to get that. ANd instead focus on the bigger diameters more and more....

Aaron Buckley · **Posted:** Wed Mar 09, 2005 12:14 pm

I'm going to be running 225/45/16 Hankook Ventus R-S2's. This is the new Z212, and I'm having them shaved and hoping that I can have the car ready for the Atlanta Tour in early April. - AB

Richard Casto · **Posted:** Thu Mar 10, 2005 11:09 am

I have given up on the Falken RT-615 in the 16" size. While people are getting this tire in other sizes (and there are rumors that they will be offering addtional 16" sizes later in the year), the dates keep getting pushed back for the 16" size they have promissed. Could be any day now or many weeks away. :roll:

The problem for me is that I am using a 16" wheel and that cuts down on the options. I can't do the Kumho MX because the diameter is larger than I want. The existing RT-215 is getting expensive and it's larger diameter and heavy weight didn't help my car's wimpy acceleration last year. I almost pulled the trigger on the 205 size Hankook Z212, but I wanted a 215 tire. So I am going with the 215/40-16 Falken FK-451. One nice thing about the FK-451 is that it has a number of sizes. The 451 is also going to drop the tire diameter (from my existing RT-215) from 23.5" to 22.8". Speed at Redline in 2nd is going to drop 2-3 MPH as well. The tire is also supposed to be lighter than the RT-215.

I know that most people who run this tire shave it, but I am going full tread. This will be my everyday tire, so shaving it is out of the question. Should be an interesting experiment. I hear stories of chunking with full tread. I have the Evo Phase I and II class in April, so I will find out real fast how much I can abuse the tire with full tread.

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