Novice School - Instructors

jimpastorius · **Posted:** Mon Jan 31, 2005 12:21 pm

Rick Butters and I are looking for a few good men and women to help instruct at the March Novice school. If you are interested, please PM Rick or myself.

This is one of the best ways to improve your own driving while helping another person learn the joys of autocrossing. If you have done more than 12 or so events, you are probably qualified to help out. Actually it is 10 times better than a test-and-tune to hone your skills.

I can not promise great riches yet. We are tyring to negoiate payment in some form. The very least, you will get a free lunch and a sneak peek at Sunday's course

Instructor Update:
Carl Fisher
Emmie Fisher
Aaron Buckley
Kevin Allen
Vincent Keene
Ryan Holton
Jason Mauldin
Les Davis
Bill Koff
Rob Lupella
Donna Frank
Chuck Frank
Chris Brown
Richard Casto
Kevin Butler
Brad Mackey
Mike Whitney
David Teague
Kevin Hoff
Dustin Fredrickson
Rick Butters
Jim Pastorius

jimpastorius · **Posted:** Thu Feb 03, 2005 8:46 am

Okay bumping this to the top. For all of those who will drive 10 hours and pay for 3 nights in a hotel, I expect to hear from you as to doing instructing. This is a one night effort and is only two hours away.

Will there be many Corvettes there? Probably not, but is that such a bad thing?

jimpastorius · **Posted:** Tue Mar 01, 2005 10:39 am

Okay, I think I am all caught up. It looks as if we have some very good instructors signed up. Thanks for the help....

I was thinking of having two courses and the students split between the two. The idea would be similar to an Evo phase 1 school. Thoughts?

Another option is to go to the multiple station schools we had a ways back. Thoughts?

MilesBeam · **Joined:** Fri Aug 15, 2003 1:57 pm **Posts:** 427

Hey Jim,

First of all, thanks for doing the school this year.

Here's more than you asked for. And if you disagree, that's truly ok with me. It isn't my intent to start a thread on the merits of what I said here. I just wanted to provide some input.

Jim, ..... I've chaired a number of schools over the years and I've seen us try a lot of different things. I've come to these general conclusions:

For novice schools:

1. The ideal format to me is a three station school, where everybody gets some time on each station. Then, optionally, and if time permits connect the stations and let the students experience a full course.

If the stations are designed correctly and located properly, it may not be a big deal to connect them if desired. Some sites allow this to work better than others.

I think the most important thing with novices is to give them only a little at a time to chew on. For example, I think the slalom station and the sweeper station from the T&T would make pretty good school stations.
Even the sweeper section might need to be simplified or shortened quite a bit.

I would probably replace the skid pad with a section on how to drive offsets. Autocrossing is so much about slaloms, sweepers and offsets. If they get a taste of those three basics.... they will have learned a lot.

If the course is at all complicated, the novice students seem to spend too much time worrying about where to go, when they need to be putting their efforts into experiencing and driving the car.

2. I like trying to have a 1 to 1 student instructor ratio. This means something like 20 instructors and 40 students for a typical school. Instructors don't have to hop in and out of cars and get to stay with the student to talk in between runs.

3. I prefer having the instructors stay at a station for the day. This way, they get a chance to meet more of the students, and the instructors really know their element. I've done it both ways though and having the instructors rotate through the elements with the students can work too.

4. It is essential that the students get a ride with an instructor early in the program. This is necessary for novices to get their senses recalibrated. Sometimes novices knock off many seconds after just riding with an instructor.

Having simple stations for novices is important. I feel like it is important for novices to learn to focus on driving the car and get to experience what it is like to have the car at its limits in several different places on course (or types of elements) before the day is over. If the course is too complex or too tight, they can't do that.

I personally don't want them to have to worry about where the course goes, but want them to first learn to enjoy and experience the car. Having elements also gives you a chance to teach them how to drive a slalom, and then how to do a sweeper, and later a lane change or offset or whatever you build. I think of it as just like practicing how to dribble and shoot the ball before you play a game. It is just learning essential skills.

If they can learn first how to drive an element, then they have a baseline for their thinking when they have to begin linking courses together.

Certainly, there are differing opinions, and by now I think I've heard most of them, every year! But.... still... for me... as an event chair, an instructor and a student for many years.... I like the multi station element
concept for novice schools.

If you get a chance to run two stations in the morning, and after lunch a third station followed by a few runs on a full course, you will have had a great day. The full course is almost optional in my mind for a novice school. Even if it is at the end of the day, the typical novice student can't really absorb a long course yet.

Jim, I'm sure whatever you do will work out fine. Good luck with it. I'm sorry I won't be instructing this year, but my kids are getting older and it is getting harder to get away on both days for a weekend.

Miles

Vincent Keene · **Posted:** Tue Mar 01, 2005 12:50 pm

MilesBeam wrote:

1. The ideal format to me is a three station school, where everybody gets some time on each station. Then, optionally, and if time permits connect the stations and let the students experience a full course.

2. If the course is at all complicated, the novice students seem to spend too much time worrying about where to go, when they need to be putting their efforts into experiencing and driving the car.

FWIW, Jim I strongly agree with Miles on these two points especially #2. Students who can't "find the course" can't learn technique because they are too focused on where to go next.

The problem is that after they "get a clue" on the elements, guess what...they have to learn how to find an entire course. Learning the elements, then sticking the elements together later in the day is the bset Novice School approach IMO.

However I'm a cheerleader for letting the event chairs run their event as they see fit, as long as it's safe of course. So knock yourself out guys.

Dustin Fredrickson · **Posted:** Wed Mar 09, 2005 12:06 am

Question: has there been any discussion on increasing the school size to accomodate some of the wait list? I have a coworker on the list, and I'm sure that there are others, that may not be as involved, if at all, without this opportunity. Seems these schools may be good "recruiting" efforts for the club.

If the issue is instructors, I've submitted my offer to help. I suspect another polling would turn up a couple more as well.

jimpastorius · **Posted:** Fri Mar 11, 2005 8:49 am

Dustin Fredrickson wrote:

Question: has there been any discussion on increasing the school size to accomodate some of the wait list? I have a coworker on the list, and I'm sure that there are others, that may not be as involved, if at all, without this opportunity. Seems these schools may be good "recruiting" efforts for the club.

If the issue is instructors, I've submitted my offer to help. I suspect another polling would turn up a couple more as well.

We are not turning anyone away. I sent an email to those registered and those on the wait list that all are welcome to attend. I may not have gotten the email addresses of the very last couple of people.

Richard Casto · **Posted:** Mon Mar 14, 2005 3:42 pm

I am sure that details on the school will be distributed soon, but I have a question. I am assuming that the instructors will be riding along in student cars and will not need their own car during the school? I ask because I am instructing and my wife is a student and we are planning on bringing one car. If my assumption is wrong then I need to know in advance to bring two cars (Honda Odyssey Minivan on course!!)

Also, is there going to be enough loaner helmets for the qty of newbie students with no helmets?

David Teague · **Posted:** Mon Mar 14, 2005 3:54 pm

jimpastorius wrote:

I was thinking of having two courses and the students split between the two. The idea would be similar to an Evo phase 1 school. Thoughts?

Another option is to go to the multiple station schools we had a ways back. Thoughts?

I like the mulitple station schools, Like we did many years ago at L'Burg, and when it was time to designe the course for the autocross they just linked all the stations togther. Also it seemed that each group of instructors had differnt ideas on what to work on. Just a Thought.

jimpastorius · **Posted:** Mon Mar 14, 2005 6:14 pm

Richard Casto wrote:

I am sure that details on the school will be distributed soon, but I have a question. I am assuming that the instructors will be riding along in student cars and will not need their own car during the school? I ask because I am instructing and my wife is a student and we are planning on bringing one car. If my assumption is wrong then I need to know in advance to bring two cars (Honda Odyssey Minivan on course!!)

Also, is there going to be enough loaner helmets for the qty of newbie students with no helmets?

You will not need to have your minivan there. One other helpful hint, do NOT offer to instruct your wife. Do not even come within 50 yards of her. This will make it a far more pleasant experience for both of you

Yes, we will have enough loaner helmets. If you loved your wife, you would get her a helmet for her birthday or anniversary. Women like them a lot better than flowers.

jimpastorius · **Posted:** Mon Mar 14, 2005 6:19 pm

David Teague wrote:

jimpastorius wrote:

I was thinking of having two courses and the students split between the two. The idea would be similar to an Evo phase 1 school. Thoughts?

Another option is to go to the multiple station schools we had a ways back. Thoughts?

I like the mulitple station schools, Like we did many years ago at L'Burg, and when it was time to designe the course for the autocross they just linked all the stations togther. Also it seemed that each group of instructors had differnt ideas on what to work on. Just a Thought.

We will have two courses. One will focus on turnarounds (tight lines, breaking early, slow in, fast out) and it will have a timer. The other course will focus on ofsets (braking early, turning early, acceleration out). The students will run both courses once.

Richard Casto · **Posted:** Mon Mar 14, 2005 6:25 pm

jimpastorius wrote:

You will not need to have your minivan there. One other helpful hint, do NOT offer to instruct your wife. Do not even come within 50 yards of her. This will make it a far more pleasant experience for both of you

Jim, thanks for the info on Qty of cars I will need. Regarding instructing the wife... We have been married about 14 yrs. I have already figured out that "telling her what to do" is not a good thing. :lol:

I think the reason she is going to the school is to avoid having me as a teacher at a regular event. I think I am just going to be around to keep her company during the trip to/from Laurinburg.

jimpastorius wrote:

Yes, we will have enough loaner helmets. If you loved your wife, you would get her a helmet for her birthday or anniversary. Women like them a lot better than flowers.

Right now the school and Sunday event is the "dip the toe in the water" moment. If she likes it she will be getting a helmet. I am all for "safety is job number one".

Chris Peterson · **Joined:** Tue Sep 16, 2003 9:02 am **Posts:** 243

Richard,
Don't forget to tell your wife about the Chick School on July 16! We'll be happy to help her 'dip her toe into the water'!!!

jimpastorius · **Posted:** Thu Mar 17, 2005 12:01 pm

I sent an email with the course map attached. If you did not receive it, please let me know. I do not have email addresses for the following instructors:

Kevin Butler
Bill Koff
Chris Brown
Richard Castro
David Teague
Dustin Fredrickson

David Teague · **Posted:** Thu Mar 17, 2005 3:44 pm

I pm'd you my e-mail address.

THSCC Forums

Novice School - Instructors

Who is online