what car to buy?

steve remchak · **Posted:** Mon Nov 15, 2004 12:26 pm

at the risk of starting a multi-page whizzing contest, i need some advice from the members that have been doing this for awhile.

i want to participate in autox, with a car dedicated to autox. i do not want a Miata, although i see the benefits to owning one. i am leaning toward late 80's BMW; 325is, 318is specifically. the prices are in line with my budget and i feel the shorter wheelbase and inherent handling capabilities are an asset given the track layout i saw @ Sanford. my concern is investing in a car which will reach a point of limitation in competition. whether by limiting the types of events i would be able to compete in, or by being a vehicle which can only be improved upon to a small degree. the 318is concerns me regarding the ability to go past a certain point in upgrades. i am totally in the dark here and realize i am asking a lot, but would appreciate some feedback. thanks for your time.

jimpastorius · **Posted:** Mon Nov 15, 2004 12:32 pm

What is your budget? Is your desire to remain in Stock class or do you want to tinker on the car? In next couple of years, do you plan to do other forms of Solo besides AX?

Adam Ligon · **Posted:** Mon Nov 15, 2004 12:37 pm

E30 is a great car, just look at Mike W and what he does in his.

That being said I would avoid a 318 like the plague, the cost diff is usually minimal at best and the I-6 is a much better motor.

MikeWhitney · **Joined:** Wed Aug 20, 2003 9:15 pm **Posts:** 4724

Can't really go wrong with an E30 325is. Does relatively well in DS or DSP. Works well for autocross and track.

Drawbacks - limited rear suspension adjustment. Finding a decent used one. There are a number of minor idisyncracies with the E30s also, but nothing that can't be overcome with some time and money. It is a minimum 15 year old car at this point.

If I were to do it all over again, I think I would go for an STX E36 325is like Keith has. Newer car with fewer weak points, better availability, and a nicer street car if that matters to you.

Kind of depends on what you have to spend. I also think a BS E36 M3 would be great fun on the street, track, and autocross.

Scott Johnson · **Posted:** Mon Nov 15, 2004 1:03 pm

Buy Jim Pastorius' MR2 and run in stock class. Just turn the keay and go play, it's really that simple.

If you want a BMW, you can't go wrong with pretty much anything that ends in "is". They are good in stock class, and even better in street prepared. Good all around choice if you dn't want a Miata.

Scott

steve remchak · **Posted:** Mon Nov 15, 2004 1:54 pm

i would like to enter in under $5k. i also want to go to vegas and take a driving course next year some time. there is a Z06 school i am interested in out there. i want to tinker a bit but keep the cost to a minimum. i apologize i don't really know enough about the classes yet. i appreciate the feedback, and i am bolting from a 318 as we speak.

Kevin Allen · **Joined:** Thu Aug 28, 2003 6:42 pm **Posts:** 3479

What you need is a Subaru Impreza 2.5RS. I just happen to have 2 of them, and both are for sale (but they're a little higher than your current budget).

jimpastorius · **Posted:** Mon Nov 15, 2004 2:11 pm

steve remchak wrote:

i would like to enter in under $5k. i also want to go to vegas and take a driving course next year some time. there is a Z06 school i am interested in out there. i want to tinker a bit but keep the cost to a minimum. i apologize i don't really know enough about the classes yet. i appreciate the feedback, and i am bolting from a 318 as we speak.

First, get a decent understanding of classes and rules. That is where most newbies make their first mistake. I would save my money and skip the Z06 school. Use that money to raise your $5000 limit.

Take the THSCC school in the spring for $20. I can assure you the quality as it pertains to AX is far better than the Z06 school. I had a Z06 instructor as my rider at the GM Auotshow in motion. I drove a Z06 three times with him. Nice guy and all, but was not well-versed in AX techniques. After a while, take a $200 Evolution school or schools.

If you want to make sure your car is competitive and eliminate that factor from your learning (no excuse blaming the car), it will cost you $2000-$4000 on top of the cost of the car.

I am not pitching my MR2 (I will cry if I ever sell it). But if you can drive one fast, you can drive just about anything fast.

Keith Quistorff · **Posted:** Tue Nov 16, 2004 5:52 pm

Like others have mentioned, keep it mind you'll need a least a couple thousand dollars to make a decent older stock car competitive in autocross. The least expensive classes to be competitive in are the Stock classes, where you're looking at a set of race tires (on a second set of wheels), performance shocks, and probably a front sway bar. If you're leaning toward an ST class, you're looking at a more sophisticated suspension on top of the Stock class list above.

IMHO, with a $5K budget, I agree with the recommendation to consider an E30 325is, assuming you can find one in decent shape for that price. The chance of finding an E36 worth owning for $5K is nil. An 80's car is sure to need some attention before flogging it, so take care of any significant maintenance first, then autocross it as often as possible. The car won't be competitive until you sink >$2K into the items listed above, but it will take some time driving it at the limit before you can take full advantage of the car's capabilities anyway. Then you'll be ahead of the game when you are able to buy new racing tires and shocks.

Kevin Hoff · **Posted:** Tue Nov 16, 2004 6:45 pm

There is always Kevin Allen's Subaru Impreza RS...

If you don't want a Miata or a Subaru the list of known quantity cars in your price range is pretty short:

E30 BMW's
DSM's
MR-2
944 8v
Honda Civic Si '89

I'll be the exception here and say that as long as the price is right the E30 318is (91 model is my favorite) is a _great_ HS car that can then be modified wildly into a SM monster with a suspension and engine swap to the E36 M3 motor. Until then it's rewarding to drive, cheap, and the lightest E30 you can get if you find one with no options.

The DSM's are potentially very fast and are definitely fun to drive. They have great aftermarket support and have a "standard" setup that works. They are quite unreliable though and most have lived very hard lives.

If you like the car it's hard to beat an MR-2 like Jim's.

The 944 is in the same boat as the DSM -- find a good one and run far away from poor examples. It is a GREAT track car and many people feel that the early car (lighter and cheaper but ugly interior) is the sleeper favorite in ES.

Civic is the benchmark car in STS, a fun and relatively cheap national class. People have bought and built cars to the redshift setup for ~5k total!

--Kevin H.

steve remchak · **Posted:** Tue Nov 16, 2004 7:47 pm

what is a DSM?

Kevin Hassell · **Joined:** Wed Sep 08, 2004 8:50 pm **Posts:** 174

eagle talon/mitsu. eclipse

jimpastorius · **Posted:** Tue Nov 16, 2004 8:32 pm

Forget subarus (unless you need to have a baby seat), these little japanese "sports car" or the impossible to keep running german cars...sell the kids, drop the wife and get this car

Quote:

1995 Corvette ZR-1 (most sought after of all ZR-1's)
#49 of 448 produced for 1995
one of only 17 Z49 Optioned Canadian Export Cars (DRL's, Photo Cell
operated headlights + metric gauge cluster)
10,400 miles
Full documentation (more than you could imagine)

Stimola Engineering Penske 8100's with custom valving
30 mm sway bar
Arizona Speed & Marine sway bar end links
Poly bushings for front bar
Arizona Speed and Marine harness bar
Schroth 6 point harness
DRM 1/4" wheel spacers
ARP Wheel Studs
2 sets OEM A-Molds
1 set AFS Aftermarket Wheels
1 set Kumho V710's 295 fronts 335 rears with 10 runs on them
1 set of 275 f 315 Hoosier S04's with 50 runs on them
New zero mile clutch and flywheel
New zero mile wheel bearings at all 4 corners
New lower front control arms
New Carbotech Greens on fronts with 2 events on them
New KFP Magnum Gold Rear pads with 2 events on them
New Front OEM Calipers with 2 events on them
Redline oil every season (usually less than 1000 miles between
changes)
Redline in trans & rearend
Corsa Exhaust with straight pipes in place of mufflers (mufflers
included)
Updated OEM chain tensioner with TSB documentation
Amsoil Air Filter
363 RWHP 340 RWTQ (very strong LT-5)
59 mph 1st gear @ 7072 RPM

Includes:
Stock bar
Stock Shocks (3100 miles on them)
Spare ECU (New in box)
Spare Water Pump (New in box)
Spare Starter (New in box)
Secondary Rebuild kit (New in box)
Stock brake pads (3100 miles on them)
Stock Exhaust

Many ProSolo & Tour Wins, One L National Championship. Ton's of 2nd's
and trophies

Given the market on the 95's this car will probably sell as a 100%
stock car to a collector, but I'd thought perhaps someone would want
to continue to race this awesome car.

All my hand controls would be removed

$37,500 OBO

In the right hands, this car can win Nationals IMO

I am pondering which organs I can really live without. If you have seen this car, you would be thinking the same thing!

Karl Shultz · **Posted:** Tue Nov 16, 2004 8:41 pm

Thing I don't like about a 944 is how horrendously expensive they can be to service. Things like clutch jobs are four figures if you pay someone else to do it.

Kevin Hoff wrote:

Civic is the benchmark car in STS, a fun and relatively cheap national class. People have bought and built cars to the redshift setup for ~5k total!

This, if you're not simply anti-front wheel drive (which is unreasonable but that's JMHO), is a great candidate, as is an STS2 CRX Si. Spend 5K on the whole thing, and you're done. With that money spent you likely have fixed all the stuff that makes a $1000 Civic a $1000 car. Bushings are replaced, motor mounts replaced, etc, you've gone over everything. The drivetrains are pretty bulletproof.

Once the $2005 challenge is over, I will proceed building my CRX to the Redshift cookbook, only on the cheap side (Tokicos instead of Konis, etc). It'll be fast, fun, and inexpensive. And trust me...a "good" FWD car is just as much fun to drive as a RWD car. It's just different.

Ryan Holton · **Posted:** Tue Nov 16, 2004 9:47 pm

Just to add to what Karl said, I bought an 88 CRX for STS2 with a blown motor for $200. Im doing a complete rebuild of the motor, and prepping it out to max STS2 prep level for under 5k. Make that 4k if you dont have to rebuild the motor.

Just depends on the level of mechanical skill and desire to get your hands dirty.

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