Great Fun at the Radio Flyer Autocross

MikeWhitney · **Joined:** Wed Aug 20, 2003 9:15 pm **Posts:** 4724

Donnie Barnes wrote:

MikeWhitney wrote:

Most likely, next time we're at Sanford we will try out a wireless *start* instead and see if T&S likes that better.

I'm not sure that's a good idea. It's nice for the raw sheets person to be able to look at the start line and go ahead and queue up the cars on the raw sheets in order before they even get to the actual start. It's also nice being able to do that on *your* schedule, not when someone is radio'ing in the car about to start or giving you a cone call. Radio'ing in the car at the start needs to also be done as a check, but having a line of 3-6 cars at the start all the time helps us keep that queue filled.

Raw sheets is a *tough* job and while it may be minor, I'd hate to take away a check and balance that we currently have. I think we can live far easily not seeing the finish than we could if we couldn't see the start. Of course, I welcome the opinions of any of the other VASTLY more experienced T&S workers we have than myself.

--Donnie

There are definitely pros and cons both ways. Phil and Rob originally had a remote start planned and I browbeat them into agreeing to a remote finish. With the remote start they were planning to have a "pre start" line right next to the bus where the queue would form prior to them driving all the way down to the start line at the far end. There are some logistical problems with that (ie need another person with a radio there?) but I believe it would take care of the bus needing to see the cars in line at the start.

I also like your idea about using remote video

Although I'm reluctant to add yet more complexity

Maybe a finish line person telling you what car is finishing over the radio?

Keep the ideas coming :thumbsup:

Keith Quistorff · **Posted:** Tue Nov 09, 2004 2:37 pm

Donnie Barnes wrote:

MikeWhitney wrote:

Most likely, next time we're at Sanford we will try out a wireless *start* instead and see if T&S likes that better.

I'm not sure that's a good idea. It's nice for the raw sheets person to be able to look at the start line and go ahead and queue up the cars on the raw sheets in order before they even get to the actual start. It's also nice being able to do that on *your* schedule, not when someone is radio'ing in the car about to start or giving you a cone call. Radio'ing in the car at the start needs to also be done as a check, but having a line of 3-6 cars at the start all the time helps us keep that queue filled.

Raw sheets is a *tough* job and while it may be minor, I'd hate to take away a check and balance that we currently have. I think we can live far easily not seeing the finish than we could if we couldn't see the start. Of course, I welcome the opinions of any of the other VASTLY more experienced T&S workers we have than myself.

--Donnie

FWIW, as an experienced raw sheets person, my first preference, of course, is to be close enough to see car nos. at both start and finish, but if I had to choose one, I'd choose to see car nos. at the finish line. Reason being I was very uncomforable this weekend not being able to confirm that the "official" time I was writing down actually corresponded to the car no. that just crossed the finish line - if you miss one car at the start (or a car moves out line just before the start, between the time you wrote the car no. down and actual start, etc.), you could end up "off by one car" for a long time before you ever realize there's a problem. It definitely kept me on my toes, constantly double-checking, but it was fairly nerve-racking. And dealing with this myself, I feared another raw sheets person might slip up at some point, and it might involve someone's best run of the day. (Hmmm, maybe that explains why I finished better than usual. :shock:

) Seeing the car physically cross the finish line absolutely minimizes this problem. Granted, it's nice not having to crowd the airwaves with car nos. continuously being called in by the starter, but I'd rather have the start line call in car numbers than have no check and balance at the finish line.

Donnie Barnes · **Posted:** Tue Nov 09, 2004 2:42 pm

Yeah, the more I thought about remote video the less I like it anyway....you probably wouldn't get a large enough field of view for it to have the car in view long enough to matter. And if you did then the car would probably be too small to read the numbers on the video. Well, unless we had a cool HD camera and big HD plasma monitor in the new bus. :twisted:

The start queue near the bus would probably work for a remote start setup. A radio person for the remote finish would probably be fine, though I doubt we'd want to add another level of chatter to the radio by having them always radio it. Maybe we should just make sure that last finish station can see the cars post-finish for a little while (which they easily could have at this last event) and we just think to radio them and ask should we need to know. Had we thought of that this time it may have helped a bit.

The remote start does fix the problem of having to have a time-sheet person since folks would be able to see the display when they finish, too. That's a plus as I don't envy *that* job at all.

--Donnie

Richard Casto · **Posted:** Tue Nov 09, 2004 2:53 pm

MikeWhitney wrote:

So the wireless finish let us stay off of the taxiway. Staying off the taxiway helps us keep from bending cars. It will definitely continue to be used in the future, but I doubt we will choose to rely on it every event since right now there is no backup or redundancy. Most likely, next time we're at Sanford we will try out a wireless *start* instead and see if T&S likes that better.

I haven't seen anyone comment about getting "post it pad" times near the bus. So I will offer a few of my own...

From a driver perspective, I had no problem with it at all. Especially if I realized that those time were "nice to have" and that T&S in the bus was doing the real deal (i.e. don't expect perfection with the post-it-pad times)

As a worker, it was difficult but doable. I talked to a few who had this worker assignment on Sunday (in addition to myself) and opinions varied on how best to do it. Some felt one person could do the entire thing. I felt it was a two person job. If thing are going OK, one can do it no problem. If things get busy or you get out of sync, then it is difficult to catch up. The problem was that if you somehow missed a car in grid, then when you gave out a time, it may have been the wrong class/number with correct time, or correct class/number with incorrect time. If that was the case you had to try to figure out how many cars where on course, how many had gone through the finish and was driving back the bus and how many pads you had in front of you with times and no times, and then sort if all out. But that didn't happen but twice while I worked.

What we do need to do at the driver's meeting is to ask the drivers to not quiz those handing out times. "How many cones, did I get?" "Another DNF, did you see what I did wrong?" "Are you sure this time is correct?" My favorite is those that question the time I give and then sit and wait for me to give them a better one (yes that did happen more than once). Trying to answer these questions AND watch grid AND watch the timer AND try to listen for cone calls can be difficult.

Overall I think this worked pretty well and with practice will be easier to pull off next time. Thats my 2 cents.

Wes Eargle · **Joined:** Mon Oct 27, 2003 9:47 am **Posts:** 3683

MikeWhitney wrote:

To all the poor stickies workers who all realized QUICKLY that their job was the hardest one at the event! Don't understimate how difficult that is!

Mike sat with me and tried to remember how to do the stickies from the night series -- we figured out that you needed 7-8 post-it note pads in a row to even think about not getting behind. I can now realize why they tell you to not talk to the people in the bus!

David Teague · **Posted:** Tue Nov 09, 2004 3:42 pm

Richard Casto wrote:

"Are you sure this time is correct?" My favorite is those that question the time I give and then sit and wait for me to give them a better one (yes that did happen more than once)..

If it was during the 3rd heat I know one of thoose were me,,, but I was just handed a time that was 30secs slower or more than my early times.... I ended up getting a re-run and did not sit there too long relizing that the display or the timer was messed up and that the person writting them down did not have the ability to correct it at that time so I found and event chair

Richard Casto · **Posted:** Tue Nov 09, 2004 6:08 pm

Wes Eargle wrote:

MikeWhitney wrote:

To all the poor stickies workers who all realized QUICKLY that their job was the hardest one at the event! Don't understimate how difficult that is!

Mike sat with me and tried to remember how to do the stickies from the night series -- we figured out that you needed 7-8 post-it note pads in a row to even think about not getting behind. I can now realize why they tell you to not talk to the people in the bus!

Having the post-it pads in a row is the way to go. And like you, I also understand why they ask you to not talk to T&S in the bus!

David Teague wrote:

Richard Casto wrote:

"Are you sure this time is correct?" My favorite is those that question the time I give and then sit and wait for me to give them a better one (yes that did happen more than once)..

If it was during the 3rd heat I know one of thoose were me,,, but I was just handed a time that was 30secs slower or more than my early times.... I ended up getting a re-run and did not sit there too long relizing that the display or the timer was messed up and that the person writting them down did not have the ability to correct it at that time so I found and event chair

David, sorry that I didn' get to meet you (other than by handing you a time).

I honestly can't remember the car/face of who wanted the better times. I probably wasn't as clear with them as to what was wrong. So they may have thought that I did have the right time on another post-it pad.

David Teague · **Posted:** Tue Nov 09, 2004 6:11 pm

Richard Casto wrote:

David, sorry that I didn' get to meet you (other than by handing you a time).

I honestly can't remember the car/face of who wanted the better times. I probably wasn't as clear with them as to what was wrong. So they may have thought that I did have the right time on another post-it pad.

Normally I would just say the only dumb ass who is autocrossing a del sol, but since they guys form team sol carolina have gotten into autocrossing I can't say I am the only dumb ass who would auto-x a del sol

Mike Winn · **Joined:** Fri Aug 29, 2003 12:30 am **Posts:** 110

David,
There was nothing to be ashamed of as far as driving a Del Sol; your runs were smooth and consistent and you kept on top of things and didn't get behind. (I was working in the middle of the course.) I was envious as I thought back to my H-stock days.

David Teague · **Posted:** Fri Nov 12, 2004 11:30 am

Mike Winn wrote:

David,
There was nothing to be ashamed of as far as driving a Del Sol; your runs were smooth and consistent and you kept on top of things and didn't get behind. (I was working in the middle of the course.) I was envious as I thought back to my H-stock days.

Mike,
you must have been there in the afternoon, because I spun on both runs in the middle of the course in the morning..., but thanks for the compliments, I actually think the car does pretty well on an auto-x course even though it has got a pretty bad rap as far as handling goes.

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