THSCC Forums

The latest SCCA classing decisions have been made for 2005, this may effect many of you, and may help influence off season car shopping.

1) Move from BS to AS: Porsche Boxster non-S, Honda S2000 (’00-’03), BMW Z4 (all)
2) All Mini Cooper S's will play in GS (including the '05 model with LSD).
3) Move from CS to ES: Mazda Miata 1.8 (’94-’97), BMW Z3 4-cyl
4) Evo and STi will remain in ESP.


There are a fwe other things but they aren't really relevant.

B-Stock will now be a great place to play if you are in a RX8 or 350Z, I hope the class does well. For that matter I saw a close out RX8 in the paper at under $20K. Seems like a great deal on a new sports car.

Scott

PS: I don't agree with the decision to put the '05 Cooper S in GS, I firmly believe that it will be faster than a Type R on an autocross course - thus making GS faster than DS.

Stevenson Mazda in Wilmington has a TON of RX-8s if anyone wants to wheel & deal.

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'99 Mk IV Jetta VR6 now claimed by the better half.

'90 Miata A-package, Floats like a butterfly and buzzes like a BEE with loudspeakers.

Evo and STi in ESP probably means STU can RIP (enough aconyms there?)

05 Mini's will be faster but SCCA sticks with it's "best of breed policy" which usually classes newer faster cars on top of older ones.

BS now opens up to what have been second tier cars. Makes me want to test drive a 350Z. In theory the 350Z and RX-8 should be the cars to have. Should be a good battle.

R package Miata's now have a new place to play. Should be a good battle here too. With some course dependancy thrown in to make it interesting.

Hmmm.... I wonder if you can get a yellow 350Z

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OK so I'm back in. Now which tire should I buy??

man.. never really paid attention before .. didnt realize the evo and sti were ESP.. thats what my 535is is classed.. can we say unfair?

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'88 bmw 535is
'98 honda civic ex

I never would have thought that would have stuck. The Camaro/Stang boys better watch out, heeeerrrs TOM HOPPE!

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02 Focus SVT
STF 9

I don't understand the uproar. The car could prove me wrong, but having gone from a car with no LSD to one with, I just don't see it being *that* much of an improvement. Note that Celicas can still run 225 tires where the Mini is currently stuck with only 205s until Hoosier sees fit to build a 215 for that 16" wheel. Say what you want about other tire companies coming in to "even things out", but I'll believe that when I see it. The current Hoosiers are *massive* for their "stated" sizes, so other tire companies will not only have to build a tire just as soft, but they'll have to continue the oversized trend. (This is all talking about tires for small rims...I don't think this oversize situation exists to such a large degree on the larger sized rims where the V710 has been kicking the A3S04's butt recently.)

Now, even if the new Mini *is* an overdog, I'll be *really* surprised if it is by very much. The Celica has been *dominant* in GS. The Mini simply hasn't been that close except in VERY select examples. I really don't think the power and LSD will give it *that* much more time. Maybe enough to become a slight overdog. But if so, well, those are the breaks. Before having read Charles' post on SCCA Forums I made the comment to someone that I thought *some* of the classing decision has to do with the fact that the Celica is now end-of-lifed by Toyota *and* Mini pays significant money into the sport.

The SEB was tasked with being forward thinking right now. Forward thinking would *not* be to render the new Mini uncompetitive and keep a dead car as the top dawg. Also note that should all the detractors be *correct* the SEB has left themselves an "out" for reclassing the new Mini. I guarantee if they are beating DS times out of the box for more than a couple of events, they'll get moved to DS. But then they'll own three classes instead of just two, which IMHO would be worse.


--Donnie

Back to BS I'm excited for that class. The 968's and E36 M3's have a place to play again! AS will I think be tight too with some serious course/weather dependencies between the C4, STi, and S2000. Fun!

--Kevin H.

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2003 WRX (again!)

I hope Donnie is right about the new Cooper S, but I am skeptical.

I think this move is signalling a change by the SCCA. IMHO they've already abandoned the DS = tuner GT class concept of a few years ago. Lets look at it, it didn't work (clearly). The car to have in the new DS was the car to have in the old GS (Type R). The only thing that has changed is the addition of the IS300 and the BMW330.

IMHO, I think we are going to see a merge of DS/GS and HS in 2006 and it will start to open up a new class for the high performance 4 doors/sedans.

By 2006 we will have a GS that is rulled by the Type R (and Cooper S IMHO). If Subaru and Mitsubishi continue to sell the rally cars I think there will be sufficient demand for them to have their own stock class to play in. That class might be DS.

Scott

It is all the fault of car manufacturers. They keep designing new cars that incrementally out perform previous cars and don't fit existing SCCA classes. Shame on them.

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Dick Rasmussen

FS 50 2018 Mustang GT

Ahhh, the ES silliness has already begun. There is talk on SCCA forums about how the pistons in the '94 miata (R-Package as a minimum) have been superceeded by a slightly higher compression piston from the '96 models, therefore it is legal to rebuild your '94 motor to the '96 specs (or just order a '96 shortblock from Mazda).

Looks like running a Miata will be just as painful as running a MR2.

Scott

I may be wrong, but I think the MiniSs are running the 225 45 16 Hoosiers.
Mark Chiles is running S03s, he cornered the market when Hoosier closed them out. Mini fixed the two problem areas: LSD and gearing. Don't think LSD will help the Mini? Watch Cortney Cormier's STX Mini power out of the corners or the Type R vs the std Integra. GS is now a one make, one model, one year class. A healthy class of 39 nationals competitors are now an also ran. Who benefitted from this decision? Mostly BMW.
The NA Mini already dominates HS and often beats GS, like on the S course at nationals.
I think this was a very poor decision that put them on a very slippery slope that upped the price of stock competition. Except for CS and ES you have to have a new/nearly new/rare/pricey car to be competitive before you even start.

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SPIN or WIN!
there's no glory for going slow.

All I know is that 425HP, 3 LSDs, pimpy coilovers, all on 315/35/17 Kumho V710s will make for one really fun STi

-Tom

No, they're running either 215/40/16 S03's (no 225/45/16 was made) or 205/45/16 S04's. The 205/45/16 S04 is just as wide as the old 215/40/16.



You can't make any comparisons between cars that ran Tues/Wed to cars that ran Thur/Fri. Take a look at STS/STX: Tom would have been in 9th in STS on the South course, with both having dry conditions. - AB

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'14 Toyota Sequoia Platinum 4WD
Super Westerfield Bros - '93 Integra - LeChump Du Jour
STX 93 - Scion FR-S

What he said. The course SUCKED before rubber was put down.....

-Tom

<cough>dyno?<cough>

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91 Jetta GLI STS/DSP 111
85 Porsche 944 ASP 11
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