THSCC Forums

I'm looking to get my first set of R compound tires and want some opinions between Falken Azenis and Humho Victoracer v700. The Falkens are so dirt cheap @ $56 but are apparently heavy, which isn't so good on an ES Miata. The Kumhos are almost twice the price @ $96 at TTR but how much do they weigh? They have a 050 treadwear rating vs the Falkens 200 so I assume I'd be buying them more often too. The economics don't really favor the Kumhos but how about performance?

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'99 Mk IV Jetta VR6 now claimed by the better half.

'90 Miata A-package, Floats like a butterfly and buzzes like a BEE with loudspeakers.

If yo really want "R" compound tires then the Azenis don't fit your criteria. In spite of what some folks say, the Azenis is still a far cry from an R compound tire. They are good, but not that good.

Sallly and I get about a season out of a set of Falkens, that's a 2 driver car and includes some test and tune time. We aren't running anything other than THSCC events though. I'd expect to go through about 1.5 sets of Kumho's in that time period.

A new Kumho Victoracer is noticabally faster than a new Falken. An old Kumho isn't a whole lot faster than an old Falken.

Scott

My first questions is, why do you want R-compound tires on a very Stock 1990 Miata? Yes, I know chicks dig guys on R-compound tires and all.

If you are simply running some local events in your Miata, go with the Falkens and save some money on tires and rims. There is not that great of a difference between the Falkens and Victoracers to warrant the extra cost.

Additionally, the 90 Miata is an underdog in ES. It will be even further back in 2005 with the introduction of the 94-97 Miata to ES. If you plan on running this car in the future, I would suggest STS2. So you would get a little head start running the street tires from the start.

Just my .02 worth...

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Jim Pastorius
2008 Silverado VortecMax
1992 Camaro CMC#92
2002 BMW R1150R

2009 3rd Place CMC Mid-Atlantic Championship
2009 CMC Hyperfest Winner

Doug:

For my first year in ES, I went with the Azenis. Yes. I'm drafting the rest of the field, but I'm pretty positive that it's not the tires holding me back. .

I'd rather sort myself and the car out on a $56 tire than a $100 tire.

Hopefully I'll appreciate the R compounds when I get there. Or be very familiar with the Azenis when I go to STS2.

Hope this helps.

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Not spectacular just decent.
I'm not sure what I'm driving.
Maybe an ITR in DS.
Or half-assed STX prepped 330.

I thought the Kumhos were a bit much for my level anyway. Also, if/when I move to STS2 I will have less tied up in 14" tires. Yes the driver needs lots of sorting, especially on THSCC tracks. I just want to see if I can move somewhere a little further up field in raw times with better tires. I'm running generic all-season performance tires that came with the car when I got it in May. If I don't improve with better tires, then I'll really know where the problem is.

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'99 Mk IV Jetta VR6 now claimed by the better half.

'90 Miata A-package, Floats like a butterfly and buzzes like a BEE with loudspeakers.

Will a new set of V700's move you up in the standing? Yes. Will they make you a better driver? No. I guess it is just how much of a check does your ego want to write?

Personally, my ego really, really wants me to run good S04's at the local level But that ain't going to happen.

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Jim Pastorius
2008 Silverado VortecMax
1992 Camaro CMC#92
2002 BMW R1150R

2009 3rd Place CMC Mid-Atlantic Championship
2009 CMC Hyperfest Winner

As someone who drives one of the underdogs on both the Azenis and Kumhos I can speak for both tires. It is obviously the tires and my car that keeps me from waxing Jim and Jim in every event.

The Azenis are less expensive and will probably help you develop as a driver rather than covering up mistakes. The are less likely to flat spot when you spin or lock them up. Not that I ever have that problem You can also drive them to and from events which is something I would not recommend with the Kumhos

The Kumhos do have a lot better grip and turn in and stopping (when not locked up), but burn up faster and cost more.

I agree with Jim, spend the money on the Azenis and develop the driver which will allow you to compete.

Jim or Jim can beat me if they were driving on cords not because of the tires, but because of driver skill. Oh wait they did that at the last event.

Just my $.03

Rob

Maybe instead of moving the new Miatas to ES, they ought to move the MR2's to CS

[quote="RobLupella]
Maybe instead of moving the new Miatas to ES, they ought to move the MR2's to CS [/quote]

Don't laugh. That was in my letter to the SEB. If they are going to move the R package to ES, might as well combine CS and ES and be done with it.

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Jim Pastorius
2008 Silverado VortecMax
1992 Camaro CMC#92
2002 BMW R1150R

2009 3rd Place CMC Mid-Atlantic Championship
2009 CMC Hyperfest Winner

One good thing about going with the Azenis is that they very loudly let you know when they are reaching their traction limits. You can use this as a teaching aid : If the tires protest going into a turn, you are probably overdriving or late braking the corner. If they are still squealing in the last part of the turn, you are probably not unwinding the wheel as you accellerate. If you don't hear anything in slaloms and offsets, you probably are driving too conservatively, etc. Kumhos don't give much warning before they break loose and you go for a ride.
I also think that what Jim was implying is that using high traction R compounds without the swaybar, shock etc changes the rules allow will not allow you to take full advantage of that increased grip of the R's. When asked, my suggestion is for the novice AXer to learn to drive on street tires for at least a year or until your times are competitive with the street tire people and are consistantly within the same second of each other. R tires can mask a lot of mistakes that will be hard to overcome later. Spend the extra money on a good AX school like Evolution, that's the best improvement/$ spent you can make.

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SPIN or WIN!
there's no glory for going slow.

Yet another opinion...

Street tires at $220 a set. R-comps at $400 a set (roughly). As the others said, you'll possibly move up in your group.

$220 for street tires + $200 for Evo Phase I school. Roughly $450. My opinion is your chances of moving up are greater. For roughly the same investment.

A couple of other things come up with R-comps. I had to get a second set of wheels. Don't want to drive them to events. So you need a trailer or a buddy with one (thanks Rob). So now you have the cost of the 2 sets of wheels and tires. You also get the privilege of swapping in the morning when you could be doing course walks. Then you get to take them off at the end of the day when you're tired and want to go home. There is more cost than simply the tires. I did R-comps because I wanted to. Ego or not being DFL or whatever.

It's really all Robs' fault for getting me into autocross and Miles fault for making me work so hard to catch him. I didn't do nothin' That's my story anyway...

Graham

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http://www.greywinds.com

I'm convinced. So Azenis communicate better, are cheaper, can be driven on the street and will not mask mistakes and prevent me truly improving my skilz. I'll have a set before the Rock next month.

The reasons I was ready to make the jump to R-compound are:

1) The tires I have are So loose on the track.
2) I thought Azenis were actually R-Compound and many people are running Azenis or better tires.
3) I didn't see anyone running low quality tires. Even people running in Tire class are using Ultra High or Max Perf summer tires. I don't think running in Tire class would be much benefit.
4) The car is in good health mechanically. The struts and springs, while not performance oriented, aren't worn out and tires seem to be a good place to improve performance cheaply.

More seat time is the best mod I could do, but there are only so many events in a year. I'd run every week if there were events close enough to do so. There are still 6 events within reasonable drive time this year and I hope to get as much seat time as possible.

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'99 Mk IV Jetta VR6 now claimed by the better half.

'90 Miata A-package, Floats like a butterfly and buzzes like a BEE with loudspeakers.

Hmm. I drove Eric's Spyder from Raleigh to Fentress in Virginia in February (last year) and there was ice on the ground in places still in Virginia (and at best it was 42F for the *high* in Raleigh) and the car had 1/4" of toe *out* in the rear *and* it was the first time I had ever driven the car *and* it had Kumhos on it (which I think were maybe old at the time, but that may be wrong). Drove my first autocross on those tires, too. Then we took turns driving it home.

I wish someone had told *me* that was a bad idea.


--Donnie

Hmmmm...define reasonable drive time. I bet yours is a little different than mine

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Jim Pastorius
2008 Silverado VortecMax
1992 Camaro CMC#92
2002 BMW R1150R

2009 3rd Place CMC Mid-Atlantic Championship
2009 CMC Hyperfest Winner

Probably. I live in Wilmington so Sanford is about 2 hours. The Rock was 2 1/2 - 3 if I remember. That's about my limit for now, though I might think about VIR sometime just to go see it.

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'99 Mk IV Jetta VR6 now claimed by the better half.

'90 Miata A-package, Floats like a butterfly and buzzes like a BEE with loudspeakers.

OK. I'll add one more positive to the azenis side. Rain. Wet conditions.

The azenis will still work great for you. We use the azenis for intermediate rain tires, especially at local events when dirt stockers would be too expensive to use up. Chuck has always liked them...me I was a hold out, but I'm starting to get used to the different feel of them finally.



Just my .0 "whatever" cents that we're up to now.