THSCC Forums

I didn't want to contribute to the hijacking of the "how much did your car weigh at Rockingham" thread. So I started this one.

Ok, I continue to get my ass handed to me by Chris (and now Wes) in STS (PS you both are bastards ). I seem to be destined to live in 2nd or 3rd place in that class. I get to sleep at night by telling myself it is the car. But I also know I can make improvements in my driving.

I know I overdrive at times. I have been reviewing GEEZ data and finding some clues for other bad habits (small amount of coasting before braking zone). But I also have some runs that feel really good, but they are just not getting the job done. So I would like for some "experienced" drivers to ride along with me and give me some feedback. I really need the feedback on those times when the run seems good but I can't do the self analysis.

So if you see me in grid (98 silver four door Civic – STS 66) and you feel like you would be of benefit to me, grab your helmet and jump in the passenger seat. I know beggars can't be choosers, but please don't just jump in if you are ONLY looking for some extra "on-course" time.

Feel free to post similar requests if you are in the same boat.

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Richard Casto
1972 Porsche 914
2013 Honda Fit Sport
2015 Honda Fit EX
http://motorsport.zyyz.com
Money can't buy happiness, but somehow it's more comfortable to cry in a Porsche than a Kia.

Just a minor suggestion - Ask Chris and Wes to drive your car in a fun run. Ride along & observe - I bet you'll learn more than hearing their observations of your run.

Or you may find out that you have "brought a knife to a gun fight".

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Mike Whitney
whit32@gmail.com, 919-454-5445
V10, V8, V8t, I6, I6, V6, F4t, I4, I4, I4, I4, I2, 1, 1

After Danville, Chris and I swapped cars. He beat his own fastest time in my car...TWICE. That was the first time he'd ever driven a Corrado. Humbling if you ask me. Funny thing was that driving his car I turned in my 2nd and 3rd fastest times of the day. Overdriving? Just bad habits I didn't carry over? Might also be that I was paying more attention to what the car was doing whereas I take some things for granted in the Corrado?Who knows, but I'm gonna try to "take it down a notch" and try to relax a little more during my runs.

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www.ncvw.org
1993 VW Corrado VR6 - DSP15 (RIP)
1986 MB 190E 2.3L 16v - STX (SOLD)
1997 BMW M3 3.2L - BS for now

Amen to that sentiment. Nothing really to add here other than I experienced the same thing at 'The Rock', and I noticed I DROPPED time when I was at full attack, but not overly aggressive and I was patient.

However, I am a n00b and a pale comparison to you gentlemen.

Seems like I will be equalling your 3rd in class now.. but in STX .

- dow

I had a bit of an epiphany at Rockingham as well. We're all used to airport sites which can lend themselves to "balls" sections where you need to be able to pitch a car through a tight segment in order to be able to be full throttle ASAP. That approach only worked in one corner at Rockingham - as I found out after a few runs.

Instead, I screwed into my head the attitude, "Get the HECK out of the corner". I concentrated VERY hard on spending as little time in most corners - tight line in, no understeer, and accelerate out as efficiently as possible. Turned out that was the ticket for all of those corners without an appreciable straight after.

I have been to autocross schools in the past where people weighed the pros and cons of the "roadrace" line of wide entry, fast exit, versus the "shorter distance" line. One rule of thumb that is often discussed is the angle of the corner - more than 90, do a tight line, less than 90 do a late apex line.

Now I know that the inflection point is actually in the length of the straight after it, not the angle of the corner. Note that by straight I mean whether the section after the corner can be taken at full throttle - not the same thing as a "straight".

Sorry for rambling. Thought I would share

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Mike Whitney
whit32@gmail.com, 919-454-5445
V10, V8, V8t, I6, I6, V6, F4t, I4, I4, I4, I4, I2, 1, 1

Yes we're used to airports and the same surface throughout the run, more or less. I ran the last, last Rocky Mount event as a novice last year and the surface changes just added to the frustration of trying to learn.

At the Rock you have 2 very different surfaces. I treated it like it was 2 courses. The 1st square was sealed asphalt. Very slippery stuff and let's you get out of shape quickly. Then the 2nd square had considerably more grip. Paying attention to the transition area between them was important. So during your course walk I think it is valuable to look at the element before and after the surface changes so you can adjust accordingly.

Graham

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http://www.greywinds.com

In addition to the two surfaces, I think it was significantly different between the early and later runs. I don't know if this was just people getting used to the surface or if the increase in clouds later in the day caused temps to drop, or what. But for me, it seemed much better at the very end. Times seemed to really drop in the afternoon.

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Richard Casto
1972 Porsche 914
2013 Honda Fit Sport
2015 Honda Fit EX
http://motorsport.zyyz.com
Money can't buy happiness, but somehow it's more comfortable to cry in a Porsche than a Kia.

Thankfully not another 0.182 seconds for you ...

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Has no responsibility whatsoever.

Not for everybody... I think some of us were just trying too hard in the afternoon.

Hehe, run #4 for me was a display in how to "overdrive". But I calmed down and put in my best run on #5, but as Wes notes, it was close, but not close enough to beat him.

Good job Chris and Wes. But you both are still bastards.

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Richard Casto
1972 Porsche 914
2013 Honda Fit Sport
2015 Honda Fit EX
http://motorsport.zyyz.com
Money can't buy happiness, but somehow it's more comfortable to cry in a Porsche than a Kia.

It's been proven many times that the quickest driver is the one who can get on the gas soonest coming out of a corner. Also Evolution phase 3 proves the quickest line in AX is ALWAYS the shortest line.

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SPIN or WIN!
there's no glory for going slow.

See, well, I guess I would disagree with "always"...

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Mike Whitney
whit32@gmail.com, 919-454-5445
V10, V8, V8t, I6, I6, V6, F4t, I4, I4, I4, I4, I2, 1, 1

I agree with Mike on that as well. Granted, I only took first phase of Evolution, but I have seen many an autocross in which the short line would not allow one to get on the gas earlier, thus making it slower.

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'14 Toyota Sequoia Platinum 4WD
Super Westerfield Bros - '93 Integra - LeChump Du Jour
STX 93 - Scion FR-S

Yes, the course after the turn can dictate the line, but notice I said the SHORTEST line, not necessarily does that mean the tightest line. you can prove the shortest line is the quickest in similar fashion to what is done in phase3.
you'll need a friend with his car and a quiet cloverleaf intersection.
Have him drive the cloverleaf on the tight inside edge at a steady speed, say 30mph while you follow him keeping pace just to calibrate your speedometer to his. Now you move to a line out a 1/2 car width from him and continue to keep pace. You'll be shocked to see how much faster you need to drive to keep up on a radius that is just a few feet larger!
The fastest line is always the shortest line is a mantra you hear over and over from the instructors during Evolution's nationals course analysis seminar prior to the Topeka championships.

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SPIN or WIN!
there's no glory for going slow.

Shortest line to a pivot cone on an airport course:

straight in, stop car, turn at full lock, straight out.

Maybe it is faster that way, but I don't know anyone that would approach it like that.

Scott