THSCC Forums

I have no strong PRO/no PRO opinion. On one hand, if a "hot foot" is doing well enough to mess with year-end points, then good for him/her. They have to be a club member to count in year-end points anyhow. PRO is so voluntary anyhow, so if you are in a class in which one or more people can drop back from PRO at any time, that is frustrating as well. I guess Kevin or Aaron could decide to run Open Class STS any time they want. I just have to live with that.

I generally agree with Jim on the "ladies" class issue. But they may feel differently. If we do ladies class, I want a "clydesdale" class for us big guys over 250 lbs. Let see, do I quite eating the extra carbs, or just buy lighter wheels!?

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Richard Casto
1972 Porsche 914
2013 Honda Fit Sport
2015 Honda Fit EX
http://motorsport.zyyz.com
Money can't buy happiness, but somehow it's more comfortable to cry in a Porsche than a Kia.

I like the idea of a year-end Novice trophy. I think most true novices need more than 3 events to get to where they can be competitive in another class. Note by "competitive" I don't mean they should necessarily be in trophy contention, just that they shouldn't be 10 seconds behind the last trophy position.

Of course now and then we get people who come out and win Novice at their first event, and go storming off to trophy in the open classes by the end of the year. But I suspect those people wouldn't want to stay in Novice for a whole year anyway, even if it was an easy (Novice) trophy...

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Carl Fisher

Be Cool to the Pizza Dude:
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/stor ... Id=4651531

I just counted 21 Miata drivers and 11 Subaru drivers for this weekend's autox. Instead of a tire exclusion list, how about a *car* exclusion list???

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Has no responsibility whatsoever.

Although I like the current setup, I could really care less if we dropped PRO, NOV, and TIRE. As mentioned in the past, we already have the overall index, so you can see where you stacked up on that... and no changes are needed.

A few suggestions were to even the field, or penalize the winner, or even bracket racing. There may have been more, but that's were I stopped reading. WTF?

Please do not further complicate what we currently have. Please do not punish someone for being fast unless they're cheating. Please don't even out the playing field, that's what PAX is for. While it's not perfect, it is a good general representation of where you stand.

I myself moved from Street tire to a class where I knew my chances of being competitive were very slim. It does nothing but motivate me to get better. If we go adding time to my competitors, what does that do but increase my chances of winning towards the end of the season.

Weee, I finally won my class with my 27 second handicap. Better yet, let's just keep this rolling through each season, that way new entries into a class will have a cheating... I mean, fighting chance! If we keep this up, we'll soon be called the Tarheel Nascar Club!

Phil

^^^
Ditto

Marcus

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I think everything is as good as it needs to be. it works. and besides if I can make my body-rolling corolla competitive on worn out suspension and cheap sumitomo HTR4's with as more events than hours working on the beater (less than 10) we should keep it the same but I do think dropping TIR is a good idea and either making a "paxed ladies class" or just dropping the ladies psuedo class(most of the time they just get bumped in to open class any way) is a good idea but hey what do I know I drive an old corolla with worn out suspension.
Which reminds me, hey scott got any old front struts from you celica. they are the same on my car and I need a little help.( okay maybe alot)

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beware of EV powered Ford EXP's they are quiet and come for you when you least expect it... hide behind an aluminum light pole...... ya that will help

If changes are to be made I think the goal should be to improve competition without increasing complexity. My feeling is that the elimination of TIR, PRO and Novice would do this. I don't really understand the need for a ladies class either

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'91 Miata STS2 project
'96 328i Sport Pkg

I agree with Jim on the ladies class idea. This is a sport where women are at no disadvantage over men. In fact, some of the best drivers in this club are women. Why pull them from open class where they can teach the novices (and lot of non-noobs) a few new tricks? If anything, maybe make a "ladies novice" class they can compete in if they want. After a handful of events, they'll feel as comfortable as anyone else.

A year long novice championship sounds like a solid idea though. Gives more competition among the novices and makes for more social interaction among "new generations" of drivers.

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1993 VW Corrado VR6 - DSP15 (RIP)
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First, I've never been a personal fan of Ladies Class at the local level. It just dilutes the classes and there is rarely any competition (more than one lady in any class). A PAXed ladies would kind of solve this I suppose, if the women wanted it. At the national level, sure I ran ladies. Didn't want to play with the boys. The girls were competition enough for me.

The way it was once explained to me to where it made some sense was:

It isn't that the ladies can't do as well as the men, it's that they aren't all as (mentally) compeditive as the men and are just as happy to compete against each other in a slightly less intense group.

We also (most of the time) come to start autocrossing for a different reason. Guys typically start because they live their cars and the idea of racing them (and becoming better drivers). Girls typically start because they are dating/married to a guy that races. (Before anyone gets offended, yes, some women do start autocrossing for the same reason the guys do, but I'd be willing to bet it's very much a minority.)

Ladies is a nice place to run, with some great competiton nationally, if you just don't want to run in Open (for whatever the reasons are).

THSCC is unique, I think, in the number of women that run at our events, and in their driving ability (Chris, Donna, Mary E, Sally come to mind immediately. There are others I am sure.). Not that my vote really counts anymore, but I think locally, ladies is a waste, especially with the quality of lady drivers you have there.

My main point in posting was to put the "reason" for ladies class that made any sense at all to me out there. Take it or leave it, as it makes sense to you or not.

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Diane (Hall) Bundas
1992 Spec Miata #48 - 1997 Chevy Tahoe - 2007 Honda Civic Coupe

The idea behind a THSCC paxed ladies class is NOT to have a place for the experienced THSCC ladies to have a place to run. They don't want or need that. Mary E., Donna, Sally, etc. regularly clean the clocks of most guys any day. It isn't for them.

It's to provide a place that's less intimidating for the wives/girlfriends and such of the regulars that are not used to competing, or have not competed at all yet. I think the chick's school last year had a bunch of newbies and first time lady autocrossers. Many of them would probably feel more comfortable continuing if they had a ladies class to go to. Maybe Mary E, or Chris P. could comment here.

You can't get a feel for the demand of this by surveying the lady members we have now to see what they want for themselves. This class isn't designed for them at our club level. We discussed this two years ago and some guys ran home and asked their wives, who were not autocrossers presently, if they'd be willing to run in a dedicated ladies class, and many of them said yes.

The only way we will ever know if this is going to work is to just try it for an entire season and see what happens. It will either work or it won't. It could ultimately increase the number of ladies participating. This would be even more appropriate if we eliminate NOV.

I think we should try it, promote it, and see what happens.

Miles

I am all for trying new things. I am not sure how you would ban current ladies from running in the class though. That does not seem very fair.

This notion to drop Novice is plain silly. We should be looking for way to increase novice retition. Dropping a newbie into open class and having them go home 5-10 seconds behind the winner will not help keeping them around. The Novice class has served and continues to service a valuable function in the club.

I like what the SCCA Tidewater club does. They actually allow a novice two addition runs. Those extra runs are made with an instructor in the car. Kind of an ongoing training program. I would think the novice coordinator could select 4-5 experienced drivers per event to ride along with the novices on their first 2 runs. The downside, the novice corrdinator would actually have a little work to do. And with 15-20 novices, we would probably lose fun runs.

I find it hard to believe we would consider dropping Novice and keep TIR around. I am totally convinced after this weekend, TIR has outlived it usefulness. Either we ban tires or if you win TIR, welcome to open. That class is no longer a step up for novice nor is it run what you brought.

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Jim Pastorius
2008 Silverado VortecMax
1992 Camaro CMC#92
2002 BMW R1150R

2009 3rd Place CMC Mid-Atlantic Championship
2009 CMC Hyperfest Winner

Jim Pastorius wrote:


I never said we would. Ladies should have a choice to run in open or in Ladies class.

Miles

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Jim Pastorius
2008 Silverado VortecMax
1992 Camaro CMC#92
2002 BMW R1150R

2009 3rd Place CMC Mid-Atlantic Championship
2009 CMC Hyperfest Winner

I think it's time for Chris Brown to step in...

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Mike Whitney
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