Cary autox

Richard Casto · **Posted:** Thu Oct 29, 2015 7:28 am

Chuck Branscomb wrote:

Richard Casto wrote:

3. What is the class prefix (for car numbering) used for Old Fart?

Richard

Richard,

You're 60+?

I feel much older at the end of some days! But no, I am not 60+ yet. Frankly I didn't really know what the limit was. I was mostly thinking out loud about option for moving into a pax class. I am staying in HS.

Richard

DickRasmussen · **Posted:** Fri Oct 30, 2015 9:06 am

Why are a bunch of youngsters looking forward to running in the old farts class? Enjoy being young while you can. :wink:

Dick
Very over qualified for OF but not going to run it.

Chad Culbertson · **Posted:** Wed Nov 04, 2015 5:40 pm

Is it Sunday yet?

DickRasmussen · **Posted:** Thu Nov 05, 2015 8:21 pm

Simple request if it doesn't cause problems for the people doing the work: Run FS in the same heat as CAM.

Thanks

Steven Carter · **Posted:** Thu Nov 05, 2015 10:40 pm

There appears to be an OF entry who registered in a SmartCar. aren't those excluded from ....really everything?

Chad Culbertson · **Posted:** Thu Nov 05, 2015 11:57 pm

Steven Carter wrote:

There appears to be an OF entry who registered in a SmartCar. aren't those excluded from ....really everything?

He's probably wait listed far enough down it might not matter, I don't recall seeing that until recently.

As Chief of Tech I would say we probably shouldn't allow any normal smart car to run. If as a club we want to follow SCCA rules it does not meet the Overall Heigh-Average Track Width Relationship chart found in the 2015 rule book.

SCCA banned base model Fiestas and they're right at the line between acceptable and not, the Smart is even further into the bad side of the chart.

I suspect they're far enough down the wait list it might not matter, but if that isn't the case for insurance reasons they should be allowed to run. I have no idea how the insurance works though, so maybe if we're honest up front and make sure they know we're not responsible if they roll the thing then maybe it's ok?

That's my input, i'll leave it up to club officers to make the call from there.

BriceJohnson · **Joined:** Thu Apr 13, 2006 7:33 am **Posts:** 2230

I saw it as well. Chances are he won't get into the event based on the wait list, but if he does, I will contact him and ask if he has something else to run, as we do not allow cars that have an SSF of less than 1.3 to run. This would also include the Honda Fit that is registered as well unfortunately. We have turned people away before based on this, and this event will be no different in that regard.

Chuck Branscomb · **Posted:** Fri Nov 06, 2015 9:09 am

Chad Culbertson wrote:

As Chief of Tech I would say we probably shouldn't allow any normal smart car to run. If as a club we want to follow SCCA rules it does not meet the Overall Heigh-Average Track Width Relationship chart found in the 2015 rule book.

I suspect they're far enough down the wait list it might not matter, but if that isn't the case for insurance reasons they should be allowed to run. I have no idea how the insurance works though, so maybe if we're honest up front and make sure they know we're not responsible if they roll the thing then maybe it's ok?

No way it's ok. Just imagine the field day against the club in court if this guy flips his car and is killed/disabled/etc...the club's insurance company would fold and settle immediately. Speaking of which, this brings up the subject nobody has ever had a good answer for (since I assume it's rather open ended): if the worst case happens at an event, the club is found guilty of gross negligence (like would be the case with the Smartcar case above), and the claim is far in excess of the liability insurance coverage -- what happens?

I *think* the answer to the above is the other party/insurance company goes after the individuals involved, personally. It doesn't mean they will be able to win in court necessarily of course; however, it's one of "those" concerns left hanging by most everyone since nobody wants to think about the worst case scenario/black swan outlier.

Richard Casto · **Posted:** Fri Nov 06, 2015 11:32 am

BriceJohnson wrote:

I saw it as well. Chances are he won't get into the event based on the wait list, but if he does, I will contact him and ask if he has something else to run, as we do not allow cars that have an SSF of less than 1.3 to run. This would also include the Honda Fit that is registered as well unfortunately. We have turned people away before based on this, and this event will be no different in that regard.

Regarding the Honda Fit comment above, there are two Honda Fits registered for HS. A 2013 2nd Gen and a 2015 3rd Gen (mine).

You mention SSF issues with the Fit. I can find published SSF numbers for first (1.32) and second (1.35) generation fits, but can't find numbers for third (mine).

The SCCA Appendix A classifications do show all Fits in HS, but I think I have read that those listings may not be the final say regarding SSF or height/track ratio issues even if they do call out exclusions in that section??? Oddly enough the Smart car is not classified, nor on the exclusion list? Regardless, I did find in the 2015 Fast Track compilation that they say the Fit (I assume 1-3 gen is covered) is fine for Street category...

http://cdn.growassets.net/user_files/sc ... 1445898134

Quote from above...

Quote:

#16218 Rollover Risk Vehicles Clarification
The following vehicles qualify for street classification based on SSF, which supersedes the track vs. width
dimensional criteria.
• Chevy Sonic
• Nissan Versa
• Toyota Yaris
• Honda Fit
The Fiat 500 standard model is not eligible for Street category

Let me know if I am reading this wrong somehow so I can cancel my registration.

Richard

Steven Carter · **Posted:** Fri Nov 06, 2015 12:52 pm

BriceJohnson wrote:

as we do not allow cars that have an SSF of less than 1.3 to run. This would also include the Honda Fit that is registered as well unfortunately. .

IIRC, SSF is T/2*CoG, so a number higher than 1.3 is what you want based on NHTSA data. height/width ratio <1.0 is OK per SCCA, but SSF trumps that apparently.

Richard Casto · **Posted:** Fri Nov 06, 2015 1:32 pm

I just checked my email and see that Brice sent out a message via MSR. It talked to a Fit exclusion and said I can't use the Fit this weekend. Based upon the email timestamp, it was sent before I had posted my info above about what appears to be an SEB ruling to clarify that the Fit is NOT excluded from street category. I know everyone is busy with day jobs, so just reply with a clarification as soon as you can.

Thanks,

Richard

PS: Maybe I should get on FB and scream bloody murder and demand immediate action? (This is a joke just in case that is not clear!

)

BriceJohnson · **Joined:** Thu Apr 13, 2006 7:33 am **Posts:** 2230

I appear to be incorrect regarding the Fit, apparently despite its SSF not being high enough (you are correct Steve as well). Richard (and Kraig if you make it in from the wait list) you are good to go.

Richard Casto · **Posted:** Fri Nov 06, 2015 1:59 pm

BriceJohnson wrote:

I appear to be incorrect regarding the Fit, apparently despite its SSF not being high enough (you are correct Steve as well). Richard (and Kraig if you make it in from the wait list) you are good to go.

Thanks for the quick reply Brice. I am also assuming based upon the SEB wording that the SSF is fine, but maybe the height to track ratio was not.

Richard

Rob Keehner · **Posted:** Sat Nov 07, 2015 2:41 pm

Crap so I can't run the STX Reliant Robin I'm prepping.

Chad Culbertson · **Posted:** Sat Nov 07, 2015 9:02 pm

Rob Keehner wrote:

Crap so I can't run the STX Reliant Robin I'm prepping.

They roll over at such low speeds I don't think there is any chance of injury. I say you're good to go, :lol:

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