We need a generator or some other fix.

Alec Moody · **Joined:** Fri Feb 15, 2013 9:02 am **Posts:** 299

I wasn't able to make it to the last meeting so this may already be figured out. We didn't have a printer for the second time this year and it makes things very confusing. How do we go about getting a generator? If I buy a Honda EU2000i will I be reimbursed?

RickyBeam · **Posted:** Mon Mar 30, 2015 11:30 pm

Alec Moody wrote:

I wasn't able to make it to the last meeting so this may already be figured out. We didn't have a printer for the second time this year and it makes things very confusing. How do we go about getting a generator? If I buy a Honda EU2000i will I be reimbursed?

I used the HP printer two weeks ago at the rallyx in Wilson. I don't know what the malfunction is with the autox setup.

(I won't have time to dig into this week, either. The first HPDE is this weekend.)

Alec Moody · **Joined:** Fri Feb 15, 2013 9:02 am **Posts:** 299

The printer has been working intermittently for the past year but apparently during the novice school is started smoking.

steve remchak · **Posted:** Tue Mar 31, 2015 9:11 am

Alec Moody wrote:

The printer has been working intermittently for the past year but apparently during the novice school is started smoking.

I hear that smoking will stunt its growth.

Jordan Normark · **Posted:** Tue Mar 31, 2015 10:44 am

I am curious about this too. I am thinking it may be simpler to upgrade the inverter if that is indeed the problem. We will probably keep the bus running in the summer anyway for the A/C. And I would think the alternator produces enough current since it looks like the bus had a wheelchair lift on the side at one point. If I remember correctly, we have a 1200 Watt Harbor Fright inverter, but they sell higher Wattage units.

http://www.harborfreight.com/catalogsea ... q=inverter

Would we need to upgrade the bus wire diameter if we go this route?

JamesMilko · **Posted:** Tue Mar 31, 2015 11:52 am

steve remchak wrote:

Alec Moody wrote:

The printer has been working intermittently for the past year but apparently during the novice school is started smoking.

I hear that smoking will stunt its growth.

That printer is way past puberty age.

Alec Moody · **Joined:** Fri Feb 15, 2013 9:02 am **Posts:** 299

Jordan Normark wrote:

I am curious about this too. I am thinking it may be simpler to upgrade the inverter if that is indeed the problem. We will probably keep the bus running in the summer anyway for the A/C. And I would think the alternator produces enough current since it looks like the bus had a wheelchair lift on the side at one point. If I remember correctly, we have a 1200 Watt Harbor Fright inverter, but they sell higher Wattage units.

http://www.harborfreight.com/catalogsea ... q=inverter

Would we need to upgrade the bus wire diameter if we go this route?

If a cheap inverter will do the trick I think that is a good option.

They have a 2000w unit for $160 - There is no way those laser printers pull 16 amps on startup.

http://www.harborfreight.com/2000-watt- ... 69662.html

Is there someone here who can figure out the output from the alternator?

Jordan Normark · **Posted:** Tue Mar 31, 2015 12:44 pm

We should probably have a good idea of total current draw from all devices so we don't have to worry about turning some things off. I cant imagine the computer draws much, maybe an amp? What else is on the AC circuit?

I think the alternator should have a label on it stating output, but I don't know what RPM that would be for. It may not even be an issue at all with the battery and considering the printer is only an occasional use item.

Jordan Normark · **Posted:** Tue Mar 31, 2015 12:55 pm

Just found this nugget in the user manual for the 2000w inverter from HF. Wonder if the Modified Sine wave is contributing to the problem with the printer?

"1.This inverter’s output is a Modified Sine Wave.
Power from most electric utilities is a Sine Wave."

and

"3. Sine Wave inverters provide power that is identical
to, or even better than, the power supplied by
your power company. Motors start easier and run
cooler under Sine Wave power. Certain devices,
such as laser printers, variable speed motors and
digital clocks, require sine wave power to operate
properly. Sine wave inverters are typically more
expensive for their capacity than other inverters."

Link to the manual:

http://manuals.harborfreight.com/manual ... /69662.pdf

Cash Davidson · **Posted:** Tue Mar 31, 2015 1:35 pm

"Putting on my Electrical Engineer hat"

You can't compare the ampere output of the alternator to the combined ampere draw of the AC loads. They are different voltage magnitudes and wave forms.

All of the AC appliances should have a nameplate that indicates consumption in Amperes or watts. Amperes X Voltage = Watts.

Typical laser printer is 6A @ 120V, therefore 6x120=720W
Typical PC is 300W

Let's say you have 1500W of total load at 120V.

Now let's say you have the heavy-duty 90A alternator in the bus. 90Ax12V = 1080W.

If you assume you need 1/3rd of the alternator capacity to run the bus electrics and air conditioning, etc; that leaves you about 725W to power appliances - probably not enough.

Also, as you run the 12VDC thru your Chinese-made inverter, you will incur loses and as Jordan pointed out you get a square wave rather than a sinusoidal wave - yielding even less power.

Cash

RickyBeam · **Posted:** Tue Mar 31, 2015 2:42 pm

I'm going to have to start working autocrosses. In a year and a half, I've never seen that hulk of a printer malfunction. (I also only turn it on when I need to print and then turn it off.) [well, high humidity causes paper jams, but all printers will do that.]

Cash, the A/C doesn't use power (other than the blower fans). A pair of batteries are what provides peek power -- and in fact 100% of the power when I don't need the printer, until the volts drop to less than 11V. (car start batteries don't handle discharges all that well.)

Andrew Jonell · **Joined:** Mon Mar 23, 2009 6:43 pm **Posts:** 1350

The club has the money. Running a V10 for hours on end to run a laptop is extremely expensive. The HP printer is a colossal piece of shit (just like HP and printers in general).

I bought a Samsung printer last year that tripped the inverter due to the warm up. Someone else bought a printer last month as well. Much like the wireless timer, we should just bite the bullet, invest the money, and be done with it.

David Teague · **Posted:** Tue Mar 31, 2015 5:27 pm

Generator???? I thought we bought one of those years ago....

Jordan Normark · **Posted:** Tue Mar 31, 2015 6:27 pm

If nothing else, we should at least invest in notebook paper :lol:

Running the V-10 is more expensive fuel wise, but you have to consider the purchase price of a generator and payback, having extra equipment to keep/maintain, fuel container, remembering to refill said fuel container, extension cords etc. Not that any one of those is a big deal, just things to consider. Plus in the summer, I bet that bus will be running for the air conditioning anyway.

RickyBeam · **Posted:** Tue Mar 31, 2015 6:39 pm

Andrew Jonell wrote:

Running a V10 for hours on end to run a laptop is extremely expensive.

You don't run the bus to power the laptop. (If you are, stop!) Start the bus to run the printer, or when the battery is getting low. (there's a meter in the power strip.) A/C is nice, but that's totally an option, but does 100% require starting the bus.

Face it. Laser printers eat a huge amount of power. Ink jet would never survive life on the bus. Thus, dot-matrix is the answer, but nobody wants to look at that horrible print quality -- esp. with a ribbon dried to dust from life in the bus.

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We need a generator or some other fix.

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