In Defense of Stock Class

Jeremy Ellison · **Joined:** Fri May 13, 2011 5:01 pm **Posts:** 186

So most of you know, I've been a big supporter of the Stock -> Street change over. This past weekend changed everything. I ran some of Karl's old Hoosiers (which I acquired from Ram) at the VMP Chillycross. I get it now. I would happily pay 2x in tire costs and change tires at every event to run R-Comps.

I'm seriously considering running BSR this year in CA. I guess that's what they mean when they say it just takes one hit...

Karl Shultz · **Posted:** Mon Feb 03, 2014 11:32 am

Jeremy Ellison wrote:

So most of you know, I've been a big supporter of the Stock -> Street change over. This past weekend changed everything. I ran some of Karl's old Hoosiers (which I acquired from Ram) at the VMP Chillycross. I get it now. I would happily pay 2x in tire costs and change tires at every event to run R-Comps.

I'm seriously considering running BSR this year in CA. I guess that's what they mean when they say it just takes one hit...

And those tires are probably two years old by now. They're "junk." Imagine what they're like when they're brand new.

After driving Steven's car a few times last year, I get the STR thing, too. It's a very different feeling and is quite a lot of fun, lots more sliding. But man is it different. I drove on pretty much nothing but Hoosiers for the last decade or more, on track and autocrossing. It's going to be a big learning curve, for me, to come back to streets. Assuming I find a car, the time, and some money.

BTW - I have a similarly old set of A6s mounted to a set of S2000 wheels that someone can HAVE, if they will pay to get them dismounted at someplace that won't scratch up the wheels. I need to get those CCW Classics cleaned up, resealed, and ready for sale.

Jeremy Ellison · **Joined:** Fri May 13, 2011 5:01 pm **Posts:** 186

Karl Shultz wrote:

BTW - I have a similarly old set of A6s mounted to a set of S2000 wheels that someone can HAVE, if they will pay to get them dismounted at someplace that won't scratch up the wheels. I need to get those CCW Classics cleaned up, resealed, and ready for sale.

Interested. Will send a PM.

BriceJohnson · **Joined:** Thu Apr 13, 2006 7:33 am **Posts:** 2230

Hoosiers ARE pretty awesome. Kinda sad to be back to street tires for this year.

DickRasmussen · **Posted:** Mon Feb 03, 2014 1:56 pm

I can say this: All season tires on a stock shock 5.0 Mustang on a bumpy site (VMP) suck. :lol:

Power oversteer in mid second gear with even slight steering angle. Wheelspin off the start in a 70 plus mph SECOND gear. Great fun though. :lol:

I suspect that R comps are gone from "stock" for a long time however. My opinion is that ST and SP class levels should be merged now that "stock" is on "reasonable" street tires and the merged class run on R comps. Maybe a "slight" loosening of the Street prep rules.

Karl Shultz · **Posted:** Mon Feb 03, 2014 5:52 pm

As much as I loved Hoosiers, the switch to street tires is part of what's gotten me interested in coming back to the hobby. Even a car that's not got a lot of camber in stock class trim has more of a chance now, if for no other reason than the financials. I'd have never considered a D Stock E46, for instance, but now, maybe I would.

michaelsmiller · **Posted:** Mon Feb 03, 2014 6:40 pm

There is very little that I miss about Hoosiers, like towing a trailer or changing tires before and after every event. Now all that I have to do is adjust the shocks and the tire pressures. Driving on street tires, whiles ultimately not as fast, is a lot more fun. With Hoosiers one tends to drive very accurately and with very little slip. With street tires one has to manage the slip in order to get good times. To me this is much more challenging and fun. It took me most of last season to realize this. When I drove very accurately with minimum slip, I always came in second or third. With street tires throttle under / oversteer and trail braking become a much harder balancing act. The window of opportunity is smaller. The difference between Hoosiers and good street tires is about .5 seconds for ever 30 seconds of run time. Is it worth all of the hassle? BTW, many of us loved Hoosiers because one didn’t have to be as good a driver to place well with them. They covered up our weaknesses. Lastly, street tires add a little more YeeHaa to the equation. :twisted:

DickRasmussen · **Posted:** Mon Feb 03, 2014 7:45 pm

I hope the "real" street tires thing works out for a broad range of car sizes since when I retire from CM being able to drive a reasonably competitive car with luggage space and no need for a tire trailer (for example 2015 Mustang with irs :wink:

) on road trips that happen to include autocrosses would be very nice. I changed enough tires "back in the day" when wheels and tires were much smaller/lighter and I was stronger. :lol:

Chuck Branscomb · **Posted:** Mon Feb 03, 2014 9:36 pm

Things I will never miss about R-comp stock class on a camber challenged car:

a) cording the edges of both front Hoosier A6s in 16 runs at $275 each (i.e. the infamous edge of death);
b) stuffing the car full of tires/wheels, unloading/loading at event;
c) 100+F heat index on who knows how hot pavement changing tires after event on a hot car...came close to heat stroke once;
d) how a car gets too pushy as stick goes up (i.e. street tires to Hoosiers) and not being able to balance that effect without an adjustable rear sway bar;
e) brushing off tires of all the rocks embedded in them before they cool while changing them in that nice 100+F heat index weather.

Thank you BFG Rival, Dunlop ZII, et al.

Steven Spampinato · **Posted:** Mon Feb 03, 2014 10:58 pm

I can buy cheaper 200 tread wear tires with the extra wheels I already have. I can run two seasons on them if not more, and keep my daily tires on factory wheels. Those Daily tires good for 40,000 miles at least

Arthur McDonald · **Joined:** Fri Aug 29, 2003 1:54 am **Posts:** 2052

michaelsmiller wrote:

BTW, many of us loved Hoosiers because one didn’t have to be as good a driver to place well with them. They covered up our weaknesses.

Hey, wait a minute! :stick:

I love autocrossing on Hoosiers. But I do hate changing tires in the heat, the cold, the rain. That Jimmy V event in 2012, with tire changes each morning and afternoon, and average temperatures of .. oh.. 140 degrees, really got me thinking that there must be a better way. The Rivals I bought last summer, though 30-50 mm skinnier than the A6s I've run, seemed to work well at last year's Jimmy V. At the first fall NCCAR autocross, not quite as well, but that pavement really isn't as grippy as you would expect and it takes me a while to recalibrate for it.

Keith Quistorff · **Posted:** Tue Feb 04, 2014 10:11 am

Karl Shultz wrote:

I'd have never considered a D Stock E46, for instance, but now, maybe I would.

. . . and, if you do, Karl, I am sure you will find unanimous support of that decision here in the THSCC forums. :lol:

(http://thscc.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=13938&start=30)

(This is where Vincent and Les chime in.)

Karl Shultz · **Posted:** Tue Feb 04, 2014 10:42 am

Arthur McDonald wrote:

michaelsmiller wrote:

BTW, many of us loved Hoosiers because one didn’t have to be as good a driver to place well with them. They covered up our weaknesses.

Hey, wait a minute! :stick:

I love autocrossing on Hoosiers. But I do hate changing tires in the heat, the cold, the rain. That Jimmy V event in 2012, with tire changes each morning and afternoon, and average temperatures of .. oh.. 140 degrees, really got me thinking that there must be a better way. The Rivals I bought last summer, though 30-50 mm skinnier than the A6s I've run, seemed to work well at last year's Jimmy V. At the first fall NCCAR autocross, not quite as well, but that pavement really isn't as grippy as you would expect and it takes me a while to recalibrate for it.

Yeah, I take issue with that too. When I ran my S2000 locally, I was frequently at the pointy end of the overall standings at the end of the day. Even so, that generally was not good enough to win, or sometimes to even trophy, in X class, or among my fellow B-Stock competitors. Clearly, I was doing all of that to cover up my weaknesses. :roll:

Keith Quistorff wrote:

Karl Shultz wrote:

I'd have never considered a D Stock E46, for instance, but now, maybe I would.

. . . and, if you do, Karl, I am sure you will find unanimous support of that decision here in the THSCC forums. :lol:

(http://thscc.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=13938&start=30)

(This is where Vincent and Les chime in.)

I think Les gave up on me the day I brought the Mercedes home. :lol:

Les Davis · **Joined:** Fri Aug 29, 2003 2:04 pm **Posts:** 2059

Karl Shultz wrote:

I think Les gave up on me the day I brought the Mercedes home. :lol:

Indeed. Even a McStrutty E46 is a hot rod compared to the "old man car". :-)

But to each his own, I actually have zero car buying plans on the horizon, it might be years before I buy another car, years! :-)

Right now, my plans for my next car are something kinda like this: http://www.corvetteactioncenter.com/tec ... uFptRAo6Un

DickRasmussen · **Posted:** Tue Feb 04, 2014 11:51 am

michaelsmiller wrote:

BTW, many of us loved Hoosiers because one didn’t have to be as good a driver to place well with them. They covered up our weaknesses. Lastly, street tires add a little more YeeHaa to the equation. :twisted:

Did you go to the Solo Nationals and place well? :lol:

More grip just means you can go faster before the tires start sliding. I found underdriving to be the biggest problem and it has gotten worse in recent years for some reason.

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