Autox Street Tire Advice

Eric Peterson · **Joined:** Mon Sep 01, 2003 10:24 am **Posts:** 494

With the pending rule changes of going to street tires next year it looks like I better figure out what to try. I know almost nothing about the various street tires. I'd like to buy a set so we can run a few events over the fall/winter and learn how to drive on them as well as figure out setup. It looks like the Bridgestone RE-11A, BFG Rival, and Dunlop Direzza ZII are all about the same price. I've heard the Rivals are the quickest, but not so good when it gets wet. The NCAC may make a good test and tune.

Any info or suggestions would be appreciated. Is there a difference between which tires like a lot of heat and which ones perform better in the cool.

I'm looking forward to experiencing something different and saving a few bucks, but this will be a new world b/c we just always bought Hoosiers and that didn't require much thought.

Thanks for the help.

Eric P.

Jordan Normark · **Posted:** Wed Sep 04, 2013 11:04 pm

I remain a big fan of Rivals, but I have no experience with the rest of the UHP street tires. They held up great this past weekend at the 24 hour autocross. I made several sets of 4 or 5 runs back to back followed by cool down and they held the heat. My fastest run of the sets was my second or third, but performance was only off by a few tenths in the first and later runs, most of that is probably my inconsistency though. I mention this since the Lotus usually has multiple drivers, but you guys are used to spraying anyway. As far a wear goes, I have a couple of thousand street miles on them and the whole AX season with fun runs, it looks like more than half the tread remains and they still grip like they did when new. My previous tires on the car were a set of NT-01's and the Rival's consistently feel like the 01's felt when they had some heat in them. Maybe Chuck will chime in with his up to date take on them.

DickRasmussen · **Posted:** Thu Sep 05, 2013 5:22 pm

Eric Peterson wrote:

With the pending rule changes of going to street tires next year it looks like I better figure out what to try. I know almost nothing about the various street tires. I'd like to buy a set so we can run a few events over the fall/winter and learn how to drive on them as well as figure out setup. It looks like the Bridgestone RE-11A, BFG Rival, and Dunlop Direzza ZII are all about the same price. I've heard the Rivals are the quickest, but not so good when it gets wet. The NCAC may make a good test and tune.

Any info or suggestions would be appreciated. Is there a difference between which tires like a lot of heat and which ones perform better in the cool.

I'm looking forward to experiencing something different and saving a few bucks, but this will be a new world b/c we just always bought Hoosiers and that didn't require much thought.

Thanks for the help.

Eric P.

Be patient . . . at least until after Nationals but remember that the Toyo's that may dominate some ST (and maybe others) may not be allowed in the new street class (haven't really paid attention). There will be lots of information on the various boards. In fact there is some discussion NOW during the RTR live broadcast . . . but hurry since they are into 3rd runs.

FYI commentary during RTR and in forums seems to indicate that the tires stay competitive for a LOT of runs (like over 100 easily). Also keep in mind that rim diameter can change plus or minus 1 inch from Stock (same width/offset rule as now afaik).

This all assumes the BOD agrees with the changes.

Steven Carter · **Posted:** Thu Sep 05, 2013 10:25 pm

Everyone seems to be ignoring the RS3, but James and Jeremy have been driving very well on theirs this season. Unfortunately no tire comparisons I've seen have included them when comparing the new tires for 2013. Zach has Z2s (switched from RS3) and Noah has just recently switched to Rivals, so maybe they will chime in with helpful info.

DickRasmussen · **Posted:** Thu Sep 05, 2013 10:38 pm

Steven Carter wrote:

Everyone seems to be ignoring the RS3, but James and Jeremy have been driving very well on theirs this season. Unfortunately no tire comparisons I've seen have included them when comparing the new tires for 2013. Zach has Z2s (switched from RS3) and Noah has just recently switched to Rivals, so maybe they will chime in with helpful info.

FYI the STX Pallotta FR-S is on RS3's . . . and doing rather well in the Pro and so far in Nats.

Easy way to find out how the various brands did in Lincoln is to "find" the brand in the results.

Ryan Holton · **Posted:** Fri Sep 06, 2013 7:25 am

It really boils down to what wheel size are you stuck with and the weight of the car. I do know that its fairly well known that you can't over stuff a tire onto a wheel. Treadwidth needs to be +/- 1" to the wheel width.

Andrew Jonell · **Joined:** Mon Mar 23, 2009 6:43 pm **Posts:** 1350

The R-S3s are now "old", but they're still a decent tire. I'm getting frustrated with mine because it doesn't communicate well when it's on the edge of getting loose, but it's completely manageable if you do start sliding.

The few times I've driven on Rivals, it communicates really well when you're going to start sliding. Chuck has some notes scattered around the autocross forum, but in the previous Street thread I posted some Miata related impressions from an extremely fast track guy: viewtopic.php?f=22&t=13498&start=75

Steven Carter · **Posted:** Fri Sep 06, 2013 11:03 am

Naturally, contingency plays a role in decisionmaking as well, and probably is a higher priority for National-level drivers than local drivers. Pretty sure BFG and Hankook have a nice arrangement, can't say I know a lot about Dunlop.

JamesShort · **Posted:** Fri Sep 06, 2013 11:07 am

Andrew Jonell wrote:

The R-S3s are now "old", but they're still a decent tire. I'm getting frustrated with mine because it doesn't communicate well when it's on the edge of getting loose, but it's completely manageable if you do start sliding.

The few times I've driven on Rivals, it communicates really well when you're going to start sliding. Chuck has some notes scattered around the autocross forum, but in the previous Street thread I posted some Miata related impressions from an extremely fast track guy: viewtopic.php?f=22&t=13498&start=75

Yeah, RS3s do not communicate well, it took me a long time to get used to that coming from Z1*s but now I really like them. I think they have grip levels that still as good or better than the current pedigree of EPSTs but their downsides are soft sidewalls (not good for camber challenged macstruct cars), lack of communication, and very narrow slip angle range at which they grip best (which is tough to get used to given the lack of communication

).

FWIW, Jeremy and I are likely getting a new set of RS3s for next year.

JohnByers · **Posted:** Fri Sep 06, 2013 2:24 pm

Andrew Jonell wrote:

The R-S3s are now "old", but they're still a decent tire. I'm getting frustrated with mine because it doesn't communicate well when it's on the edge of getting loose,

This is my opinion as well of them after driving an NCR event last weekend on a very well prepped STR NC Miata. Thought I was driving an S2000 for a second when the next thing I knew I was staring back at the start when I knew I shouldn't have been :lol:

Eric Peterson · **Joined:** Mon Sep 01, 2003 10:24 am **Posts:** 494

Thanks for all the advice everyone! Ryan, your tire size comment was helpful and reinforced what I've heard. Everything is always trial and error, but it's always nice to have a well thought out first step. Sounds like the BFGs like heat which will be nice at Pros and/or if one has a co-driver in the summer months. We're going to try the Dunlop Z2 since most of our testing will be in the fall/winter *and* they are supposed to work better in cooler temps. They also offer a better range of options for our tire size choices in case our first guess on sizes is too big.

Thanks again,
Eric

DickRasmussen · **Posted:** Sun Sep 08, 2013 3:47 pm

Eric Peterson wrote:

Thanks for all the advice everyone! Ryan, your tire size comment was helpful and reinforced what I've heard. Everything is always trial and error, but it's always nice to have a well thought out first step. Sounds like the BFGs like heat which will be nice at Pros and/or if one has a co-driver in the summer months. We're going to try the Dunlop Z2 since most of our testing will be in the fall/winter *and* they are supposed to work better in cooler temps. They also offer a better range of options for our tire size choices in case our first guess on sizes is too big.

Thanks again,
Eric

FYI Roadraceautox has some Nats/Pro negatives about the Rivals in the "they did make it lightweight" thread. (no link since that is seriously frowned on or against the site rules). It might be site specific but I don't know.

Ryan Holton · **Posted:** Mon Sep 09, 2013 11:14 am

DickRasmussen wrote:

Eric Peterson wrote:

Thanks for all the advice everyone! Ryan, your tire size comment was helpful and reinforced what I've heard. Everything is always trial and error, but it's always nice to have a well thought out first step. Sounds like the BFGs like heat which will be nice at Pros and/or if one has a co-driver in the summer months. We're going to try the Dunlop Z2 since most of our testing will be in the fall/winter *and* they are supposed to work better in cooler temps. They also offer a better range of options for our tire size choices in case our first guess on sizes is too big.

Thanks again,
Eric

FYI Roadraceautox has some Nats/Pro negatives about the Rivals in the "they did make it lightweight" thread. (no link since that is seriously frowned on or against the site rules). It might be site specific but I don't know.

This place is private, so I wouldn't worry about it Dick. RRAX needs to get over the whole "private" thing IMHO. Dick is right, everything I have read says that folks were ditching Rivals in Lincoln as quick as they could.

Eric, you might need to do some research into the R1R, there are supposedly some other sizes that got the "good" compound top to bottom.

JamesShort · **Posted:** Mon Sep 09, 2013 11:24 am

Eric, which car are you thinking of running? I think the weight, camber, suspension type etc is going to dictate which EPST you get. Ie you wouldn't want to run a heavy, camber challenged McStrut car with RS3s or R1Rs due to the soft sidewall and high wear rates.

DickRasmussen · **Posted:** Mon Sep 09, 2013 11:44 am

Looking at the Nats results for the ST and RT classes there were a lot of winners or high trophy cars on BFG's and Dunlops.

So the "hate BFG's" thing might have been car/setup specific.

Looking at the TireRack tests for the BFG and Dunlop there were some significant feel differences that might tilt the balance depending on what you guys need/want.

One thing to consider with the Hankooks is the potential for supply problems. Don't know if this is real or not but at least one very credible source mentioned it earlier this year.

Also, if there is an EVO school coming up Mike Johnson mentioned during one of his announce stints that he plans on continuing having BFG "test tires/wheels" available. So you might check with him.

FYI there is a VMSC practice event in Richmond later this month. If you can get in you might be able to arrange to pick up a set of loaner tires/wheels from Mike since he lives there.

Good luck.

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