Adopting a new idea for more entries?

Steven Carter · **Posted:** Sun Jun 30, 2013 6:34 pm

So, I know some other clubs do something like this, and I thought I would bring this up now, in hopes of maybe generating some discussion at the July meeting....

I am tired of driving poorly.. It has been very difficult for me to improve, and I think it is directly related to a lack of seat time and a couple of psychological blocks I have. In an effort to suck less, I go to other club's events for more seat time. I was struck by "Seat time Only" class that Triad and CCR run, and wondered if something like this would work for us?

Basically, this would be enable someone to register twice, pay twice, but have only their SCCA class times count. It seems reasonable that STO drivers would also work, so in essence it is: pay twice, work twice, drive twice. STO runs would have to go after the competiton runs, so there is that to work out as well.

I would very much like to drive well enough to make it Nationals in the next five years. I am clearly well off the pace given yesterday's performance. I think adding the ability to double dip in exchange for working/paying twice helps the club's bottom line and makes our members get better.

Thoughts?

RobLupella · **Posted:** Sun Jun 30, 2013 7:50 pm

We have allowed this but people have to work twice too.

Pete Guthrie · **Posted:** Sun Jun 30, 2013 7:52 pm

In rallycross, we work every group except our.We drive,work,drive,work.and a break for lunch

Steven Carter · **Posted:** Sun Jun 30, 2013 7:58 pm

RobLupella wrote:

We have allowed this but people have to work twice too.

Agreed. It seems like a win-win scenario to me, as it has the net effect of increasing entries and entry fees.

Steven Carter wrote:

It seems reasonable that STO drivers would also work, so in essence it is: pay twice, work twice, drive twice. STO runs would have to go after the competiton runs, so there is that to work out as well.

Chuck Branscomb · **Posted:** Sun Jun 30, 2013 9:10 pm

Sometime back we did an intermediate school about 1/2 way through the season. Perhaps we could make that work again? I love the challenge of working with students, so I'd be glad to instruct as so many other club members would also as in the past.

If the full intermediate school thought doesn't fly, what about a limited entry "school" in the afternoon prior to an autox, maybe 10 students or so, something that would make sense for say 4 hours (and leave enough time to finish setting up the course for the next day)?

As an aside, TO was a class down in Atlanta SCCA events I used to run when Jackie was in Atlanta, but they didn't allow "double looks" at the course meaning you only had the choice of running a normal class or selecting TimeOnly.

Steven Carter · **Posted:** Sun Jun 30, 2013 9:28 pm

I understand, and that is why STO runs would have to occur AFTER competition runs, and in a different (later) run group. STO markers would replace their class markers, so as not to confuse. The whole concept hinges on the idea that (a) STO is for practice and (b) not for cheating. Personally, I would be OK with being ineligible for season-end trophies if I did STO...after all, the impetus of this thread is that I am tired of being out of the trophies, right?

A school is a great idea, but it seems like we have a lot of trouble getting dates, seems like there always a few who can't make it, and we have to have a minimum of drivers so as not lose money. STO allows for 1 up to however many want to pony up the extra work and money.

That said....Chuck if you want to instruct me on my STO runs, that would be great. :thumbsup:

Chuck Branscomb · **Posted:** Sun Jun 30, 2013 9:59 pm

Be glad to if/when we get the chance. 1st up is calling your vision cues to the key spots on course. Odds are you already know what to do, how to do it, how hard to push it, how to respond to overdriving entries, exits, etc, so you just need fine tuning blending it all together. Communicators like used at track events would be nice to use at schools too btw -- wonder if we can borrow some.

Andrew Jonell · **Joined:** Mon Mar 23, 2009 6:43 pm **Posts:** 1350

I think I went to the Intermediate School a few years back, and I think we should bring it back... especially after Danville is open again! I'm down for an extra run "class", but I think we would need to cap it and be extremely clear what is happening.

BriceJohnson · **Joined:** Thu Apr 13, 2006 7:33 am **Posts:** 2230

Andrew Jonell wrote:

I think I went to the Intermediate School a few years back, and I think we should bring it back... especially after Danville is open again! I'm down for an extra run "class", but I think we would need to cap it and be extremely clear what is happening.

Definitely. The only site we have that would really work financially for a school would be Laurinburg until Danville comes back.

JamesShort · **Posted:** Mon Jul 01, 2013 8:53 am

We have actually done this on a very selective basis a few times over the years. It makes figuring out run groups and heats more complicated and given our last few years low attendance numbers, will compound things. I'd say if we are to do this, we need to limit it to no more than 3-4 folks per event. Also, how do we get this to work when we usually run 3 run groups? STO entrants will have to do gate or relieve Drew of cleaning up all the cones or something

.

Anyway, carry on, I'd like to hear more ideas on the logistics of STO being more common place.

Steven Carter · **Posted:** Mon Jul 01, 2013 9:38 am

I think there is a "critical mass" component to this, where if we get enough STO drivers we could move to 4 run groups, but if it's under 5 or so drivers we'd likely have to stay with 3 groups...I'd defer to the WCs on what number of workers we need per heat on our current sites.

Making STO drivers responsible for course disassembly sits OK with me given the 3 run groups, and that requirement could be removed if we have enough drivers to make 4 groups (STO drivers would then run twice, and then do usual work assignments the other two groups.)

Having STO drivers break down the course frees up EC/GMs and last work group from the extra effort of stacking cones, and facilitates end-of-day activities. Of course, if there are only a handful of STO drivers we would still need the extra help, but there would at least be a built in cadre of people who are guaranteed to be there.

If prior approval for STO is required, I'm OK with that...so long as I always get prior approval :wink:

edit: Also, I think that the extra work requirement should apply to officers/ECs who wish to drive STO as well.

BriceJohnson · **Joined:** Thu Apr 13, 2006 7:33 am **Posts:** 2230

I'm open to it on a case by case basis and would say for those interested, just come talk to one of the VP's at the event and we'll determine whether it will work or not for the given day. If there is an overwhelming response, maybe we determine what "official policy" is on it.

Andrew Jonell · **Joined:** Mon Mar 23, 2009 6:43 pm **Posts:** 1350

Logistics wise, the biggest issue I can see is managing numbers in terms of entrants, and it puts us in a variety of tough spots no matter what the decision is:

Scenario 1:
Register Time Only at registration and get a few more runs during your run group.

Scenario 2:
Do Time Only entries along with regular registration and have the Time Only run during the event.

Scenario 3:
Extended fun runs, $20-25 for 4 runs, registration happens immediately after the safety meeting.

Scenarios 1 & 2 might create a hassle with registration, the worker coordinators, and the grid worker. The grid and WC need to be super vigilant to make sure that the car is marked appropriately and that the participant works twice.

Scenario 3 is a gamble, but is the safest logistically.

Rob Keehner · **Posted:** Mon Jul 01, 2013 11:09 am

Why not skip the drivers meeting bs and have the track open for 30 minutes for lapping. If you hit a cone you lose a timed run. Put minimal workers out for it.

Personally I'd like to see the club return to a more customer focused approach. Meaning sweeping the course and blowing all the dust off so all the run groups have a fair shake. Tossing cones out and saying go at Danville is not acceptable for the first group. This can be an official worker assignment.

JamesShort · **Posted:** Mon Jul 01, 2013 11:47 am

Rob Keehner wrote:

Why not skip the drivers meeting bs and have the track open for 30 minutes for lapping. If you hit a cone you lose a timed run. Put minimal workers out for it.

I think the notion of skipping the driver's meeting is unreasonable and from an insurance standpoint, is *not* kosher.

Quote:

Personally I'd like to see the club return to a more customer focused approach. Meaning sweeping the course and blowing all the dust off so all the run groups have a fair shake. Tossing cones out and saying go at Danville is not acceptable for the first group. This can be an official worker assignment.

This is a great idea. Unfortunately, the hindrance to this is that the club has experience a significant drop off in 'core members'. What I mean by that is members who are not officers/staff that are usually always at events and always helping in ways that get the events setup on time and broken down in a reasonable amount of time. In 2009 I remember that from the time that the last car crossed the finish line to the time we were doing trophies felt like was only 15, maybe 20 minutes. Not 45 min to an hour like it is now. We have a hard requirement that the bus is packed up before trophies begin. And on the other side of the day, morning setup is taking a lot longer because we generally only have 1 'real' Event Chair and generally a VP/Pres is the other EC so the responsibilities are diluted and we're generally struggling to even get the first car off by 10:30.

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